Fell Running First Aid

[daz h]

Red Cross patched me up at ben nevis and i signed a form as they treated me.
thanks to them for there good work

[AllanT]

Ive let my first aid lapse
I know i Knoow thats not a good thing to do
Ive been a first aider for nearly 20years at work

You are only insured for work if you pass the first aid at work course. You can buy insurance for first aid outside of work.

Its a good idea to get qualified but nine times out of ten you just ring for an ambulance or send the patient to hospital.

You would never get a situation in court where if you tried your best with a patient ( ie gave first aid ) you could be convicted. The judge would laugh the case out of court. you wouldnt be sued

Don't quote me on this but I think if you've had training and your training is lapsed, although you are not covered with the insurance of your trainer it would still mean that in court you could show as long as you acted precisely according to your previous training that you wouldn't be convicted for having used it. Hopefully the lawyers on here can offer a bit more background to this???

[daz h]

Don't quote me on this but I think if you've had training and your training is lapsed, although you are not covered with the insurance of your trainer it would still mean that in court you could show as long as you acted precisely according to your previous training that you wouldn't be convicted for having used it. Hopefully the lawyers on here can offer a bit more background to this???

once your traing cert has expired thats it your NOT a first aider
simple as
anyway first aiders only put plasters on or ring for an ambulance

[AllanT]

once your traing cert has expired thats it your NOT a first aider
simple as
anyway first aiders only put plasters on or ring for an ambulance

Daz, once your certificate has expired you are no longer a certified firstaider at work, or covered by your trainers insurance.

You do still however have those skills, and if you used them competantly in a life or death situation correctly then that is a different matter all together. I do not think a court would allow any individual who has acted correctly in line with past training to be sued or convicted for intervening in any life threatening situation just because their certificates had expired.

That said if you impeded an individual with a higher level or more current training that would be a different matter entirely.

And trained first aiders can do a lot more than just stick a plaster on and call for an ambulance. For example you can actively rescusitate a patient using CPR while waiting for an ambulance to arrive - you may even be asked to assist the ambulance crew with rescusitation once they have arrived. You also have to be capable of making the assessment of the casualty's condition.

Although they do not have the same level of experience or as high a skills set as a regular ambulance crew, a fully trained St John Ambulance or Red Cross, or other voluntary services ambulance crew is able to offer much the same skills as a regular ambulance crew TO A POINT, and is trained to recognise exactly when they should call for regular and more skilled backup For example they have skills to:-

Begin simple CPR (mouth to mouth) while waiting for kit to arrive (any first aider should be able to do this).
Progress to use bag and mask to rescusitate, coupled up with 100% O2
Use Oropharangael and Nasal Pharangael Airway management where there are no contrindications
Clear the mouth of any aspirations using suction devices.
Use AED's to provide Defribrillation
Spinal Management using Adjustable Cervical collar (correctly measured and fitted), Spinal Board, CED or Vacumn matteresses
Split and use Scoop Stretchers to extract casualties with the minimum of movement.
Log Roll Spinal Cases Correctly, including proper control of the neck, also remove helmet and control airways correctly while maintaining neutral alignment of the head.
Take Manual BP's using Stethoscope + Cuff, or Automatic ones using a Dynomap, also using the SPO2 + BPM
Being able to read symptoms in order to dictate their course of action.
Manage respiratory conditions such as COPD correctly.
Manage Fractures using immobilisation devices
Offer Entenox to casualty as a self administered Pain Relief where no contraindications were present.
Apply wound dressings, simple cleaning of wounds.
Assist higher skilled personnel including Dr's and Paramedics where appropriate.
Transport patients to hospital and conduct a full handover to staff where appropriate.

[daz h]

Daz, once your certificate has expired you are no longer a certified firstaider at work, or covered by your trainers insurance.

You do still however have those skills, and if you used them competantly in a life or death situation correctly then that is a different matter all together. I do not think a court would allow any individual who has acted correctly in line with past training to be convicted for intervening in any life threatening situation just because their certificates had expired.

That said if you impeded an individual with a higher level or more current training that would be a different matter entirely.

thats what i just said

[AllanT]

thats what i just said

Right, it's just the way you made it sound was as if you will be prosecuted for using skills gained in previous training in a life or death situation if your training is current. Whereas this may not necessarily be the case.

That said it is best to cover your @ss and make sure you keep your certificates up to date. It's easy to forget a lot of stuff if you're not practicising it every day.

[Guick Dotto]

What's with all this expert training - just look it up on the internet. Assuming you happen to be running with a bic biro case to hand here's how to perform an emergency tracheostamy

Most first aid doesn't involve cutting a hole in someone's throat or their chest. In my experience remembering to get an ambulance is the most important job of all.

[philgreen1968]

i think the Bollam test is the one common used for all first rsponders aiders. Ie that you deliver assistance to the person with the same level of care / ability as any other reasonable person in the street. I think a first aid course is good option, however sending the patient to a place of definative care should be the gold standard.

[AllanT]

i think the Bollam test is the one common used for all first rsponders aiders. Ie that you deliver assistance to the person with the same level of care / ability as any other reasonable person in the street. I think a first aid course is good option, however sending the patient to a place of definative care should be the gold standard.

That is undisputable. However sometimes it's what you're doing while waiting for an ambulance/helicopter to arrive which makes the difference. No-one is suggesting that people attempt to deal with things themselves rather than call on the support of the full time services, or than send someone to hospital. What we are saying is that people should be able to provide BLS or more (according to your skill level and resources) while waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Remember that within the Golden hour, there is the platinum ten minutes which is what really makes the difference.

[philgreen1968]

so should all fell races have first responders dotted round the course with AED's and a trauma pack? a simple first aid cert and mountain rescue back up should be all that be required at maximum.