Marathon off fell running

[IainR]

I'm entered in Snowdonia Marathon but have barely done one road run a week this summer after thinking I wouldn't be able to run it due to a clash with another race. Anyway that's not on anymore.

Has anyone ran a marathon off just running in the fells? Was doing quite a bit of road work in the spring, Rhayader 20 in 2:11, 4 Villages in 1:21, but since then just been doing fell racing and mainly longs. In the past 6 weeks or so I've done Borrowdale (17 miles in 3:14), Beacons (19 miles in 3:00), UTMB (70 miles), Peris (18 miles in 3:33), and have the Black Mountains (17 miler this weekend) and Rhinogs (15 miler in 2 weeks) coming up.

I've been told this is the 'fell runners marathon', but i don't know whether to just carry on as normal, or put a month of road work in? Or will it all be too little too late with 5 weeks to go?

[marty mcfly]

I trained mostly off road for the 3 Peaks this year, and then figured that since I was fit(ish), I might as well have a crack at the Edinburgh mara. The mara was a month after 3Ps, so I had 4 weeks of pure road running to get used to the impact and to get some more consistent pacing practice.

I was pretty pleased with 3.14 in the marathon, but felt that with more race pace practice I should have gone under 3.10. Running on the fell doesn't lend itself to building any consistency. As long as you can get that somehow, you'll be fine!

[Pudgy]

I did do a marathon, one week after the 3Ps, just off training on the fells. I jogged round, and just nipped under 3 hours, but I had done a half and a few 10Ks in the previous months, which i suppose counted as speed training. Boring as hell, but at least Snowdonia should be more interesting.

[CL]

I'm entered in Snowdonia Marathon but have barely done one road run a week this summer after thinking I wouldn't be able to run it due to a clash with another race. Anyway that's not on anymore.

Has anyone ran a marathon off just running in the fells? Was doing quite a bit of road work in the spring, Rhayader 20 in 2:11, 4 Villages in 1:21, but since then just been doing fell racing and mainly longs. In the past 6 weeks or so I've done Borrowdale (17 miles in 3:14), Beacons (19 miles in 3:00), UTMB (70 miles), Peris (18 miles in 3:33), and have the Black Mountains (17 miler this weekend) and Rhinogs (15 miler in 2 weeks) coming up.

I've been told this is the 'fell runners marathon', but i don't know whether to just carry on as normal, or put a month of road work in? Or will it all be too little too late with 5 weeks to go?

Iain there's a concept in sports science called SAID. It means specific adaption to imposed demands. So if you want specific results you've got to train specifically I.e. running on road.

I'm not saying you can't run a marathon off fell running, you obviously can, but for best results you ought to get yourself on the road. Traction on the road is good and it doesn't pull your legs around as much as rough fell. So for fast prolonged running it's the best way to go.

You'll need two longish runs a week(1.5-2hours) and two time trials over 5 and 10k. These shouldn't be run flat out, but should be a lot faster than your long run pace. Choose flat and undulating courses.

I did this marathon last year and you have to be careful not to overdo it on the long descent from the pass. If you go too fast there, then when you turn right at about 22 miles and see the mountain you have to run up, you'll end up walking, or at the least running at walking speed. And boy does that hill go on and on at the wrong time.

[Pudgy]

whereas I (somewhat reluctantly ) agree with CL, the other thing to put in the mix, is I tend to pick up hamstring and calf injuries if I do too much on the road. That, and the demotivating, brain crushing tedium.

[jodg]

My tuppence worth...

Trained and ran Snowdonia last year. Did several 20 mile road runs in the lead up and did well on the day (3h 30m), for my first marathon that is. The hills are a bit nasty, especially at the end, so found that all the hill training came in handy.

This summer I ran the Manx marathon just off the back of fell running and it was a tale of two halves. Quite happily kept the tempo up (7 min miles) until half way and then it began to hurt. Tremendously. Kept going somehow(!?) and managed to finish under 3h 30m on a flat course.

What did I learn from this? If I had to run another road marathon I'd get a good few weeks of road practice in - keeping a constant pace over an enitre race distance is not something that you can get from fell running alone.

Snowdonia's a super road race though.

[Pudgy]

they're fair points about the difference between getting round and running a decent time. I guess if I got a knock on the head, and a desire to race a marathon, then I would do the core of my running, including the long runs, on the fell, but do a fair few road races, including maybe a 20 miler or so. I'd probably also do a bit of track work and intervals for basic speed. But I haven't, so I'm not.

I suspect 5 weeks is a bit too close to the race to start building up a road long run anyway. I'd say concentrate on long intervals to sharpen up your fell fitness. As for whether you'd get round just on fell running fitness, you'd do it pretty easily I'd of thought. I suppose it's just a matter of how competitive you'd be.

[Pinchy]

Your quads'll be wrecked after 20miles! To race on the road you need to train on the road.

[SteveS]

I ran the Robin Hood marathon a couple of weeks ago, mostly off he back of training for my second shot at the BG 8 weeks earlier. My long runs since then were the Dovedale Dipper 26, Belper 30k (both moderately hilly off-road) and Coventry Way 40 (offroad but flat).

I was around 10 minutes slower than London this year, but I still though the time was fairly respectable. I do come from a road and trail running background rather than fell however.

I agree you have to do specific road training to be as good as you can be on the road, even for something like Snowdonia marathon, but at this late stage I'd be inclined to accept that I wouldn't be able to convert to road in time to achieve the best possible, and instead train where I enjoy, and do my best to enjoy the marathon.

[IainR]

Not a bad time Christopher! Sub 3 on Snowdonia is a hell of a run..

Yeah I do realise 3 months of specific training would have been far better, but the fells were my target this year and it's gone well, I just had my eye on the marathon as it's right at the end of the year really, but then thought I'd be away in Italy.

Difficult thing is getting the long runs in as I'm doing the Black Mountains Race this weekend, then away in Scotland walking for the weekend, then Rhinogs race, the FRA Relays, then the Marathon, so already every weekend is taken. I was thinking of doing maybe a 10 miler tommorrow night, then a 15-20 miler next Thursday and then one 10-15 miler each week running up to it as well as my usual training. Stamina wise I think I'll be OK as I'm racing for 2-4 hrs most weekends and been going well in the longs but do think I'll really suffer in the hips and knees, but also struggle to know my pace like I did when I was running on the roads more.

Anyway cheers for the advice.