Lights!!

[wheezing donkey]

Britta, fair comment, I was making reference to the one's that were around last winter - just 2 leds. How long does the battery last now that they are running 4 hyperbright leds? And what is the cost?

[Britta]

How long does the battery last now that they are running 4 hyperbright leds?

It's all still being tested - we're thorough like that (to be revealed soon)

Must say i even like the vision 1 torch a lot - very simple, very bright, easy to carry replacement batteries...

Only complaint so far is that even the brightest torches wont show you the 'right' way - we still get lost

[idler]

Must say i even like the vision 1 torch a lot - very simple, very bright, easy to carry replacement batteries...

Hi - Any comment on the suitability of the Vision 1 for belting down unlit lanes on a road bike? I'd guess pretty good. Do you think it would be up to a bit of offroad? (Can't be worse than my old halogens, with their artistic smudge of brown light...)

Really like the look of the Hope 4, apart from the price tag of course ;-)

[Britta]

Any comment on the suitability of the Vision 1 for belting down unlit lanes on a road bike? I'd guess pretty good. Do you think it would be up to a bit of offroad?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask as i wouldn't belt down any hill on a bike even in bright day light as i'm a bit scared BUT would think the vision 1 would give pretty good light!

One big plus is that they all come with bike & helmet mounts in the box!!!

The Vision 4 has already been tested for off road mountain biking and the reports back are pretty inspiring! (Torch has gone on holiday under the pretext of testing battery life )

[Fellhound]

Woaaah! Let's not forget that we are just doing a spot of night fellrunning here. In the words of Monkeynut - "How much light do you need??"

The biggest difficulty with winter night fellrunning is thick clag, and the headtorch that can dissipate that has not yet been invented!

The Grand Bat of The Bowlands

[sapper]

Woaaah! Let's not forget that we are just doing a spot of night fellrunning here. In the words of Monkeynut - "How much light do you need??"

Sensible words Trundler. What is your recommendation for lighting up a spot of night fellrunning? Or is this something you're not to be drawn into for fear of knowing that it is actually unanswerable. "A torch" maybe?

Seems to me purchases such as these are always a compromise (doesn't it feel the same with all gear?). How about a 5Bs review of Brightness, Battery, Build, Bulk, Budget. 4 points for each category, best out of twenty wins the Forum's Fellrunning Light of the Year (FLOY) award given out in early October each year, so that we can all either buy a new light (again) or add it to our christmas lists.

I'll offer some fell running specific criteria for grading (which will no doubt be contentious in themselves), but I'm happy for some subjectivity to come into this.

Brightness - 4 Wiiiide and looong.....1 I can just about see my shoes
(we could "Lumens" this criterion 4 >100, 3 >75, 2 >50, 1 <50
Battery (full power only) - 4 > 4 hours, 3 >3 hours, 2 >2 hours 1 fading at 1 hour or so.
Build - 5 Will take chucking against rocks, plenty of mounting options....1 out of a cheap cracker
Bulk (including batteries) - 4 Under 200g 3 under 250g 2 under 350 1 >350
Budget - 4 Under 50 quid, 3 <100, 2 <200 1 how much?

[ifor]

Nice idea for the scores but for the brightness if you actualy wanted lumens then your lumens scale needs some tweaking because of the way you actualy percive light. I would go with somthing like 1 < 125, 2 125-250, 3 250-500, 4 500+.

I would also add a buttons (features but I cant think of a better B) section 1 on/off, 2 multi level, 3 multi level + wide or narrow etc. 4 all sorts of stuff like battery protection thermal protection etc.

So here are my scores for some lights I have.

Name,               Brightness, Battery, Build, Bulk, Budget, Buttons
PT Apex (upgraded)  2           3          4       2     3         3
BD Spot             1           3          2       4+    4         2
BD Ion              .5          3          3       4++   4         2
Home Made 4led      4           2          1       2     3         4

Ifor

[sapper]

Nice idea for the scores but for the brightness if you actualy wanted lumens then your lumens scale needs some tweaking because of the way you actualy percive light. I would go with somthing like 1 < 125, 2 125-250, 3 250-500, 4 500+.

I would also add a buttons (features but I cant think of a better B) section 1 on/off, 2 multi level, 3 multi level + wide or narrow etc. 4 all sorts of stuff like battery protection thermal protection etc.

Thanks Ifor. Your expert eye on this (and from the posts here and elsewhere I know you've spent some time exploring the details) is a welcome addition. With the lumens thing I understand the issue. I used those numbers based on the brightness of lights fellrunners are likely to use from what's available as opposed to the brightest we could have. Your homemade version is "out there" on lumens but I doubt many FLOY contenders would be getting a 4 on your scale. I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. "Buttons" is good. I'd thought of "Build" as encompassing a wide range of features (I was just forcing the "B" thing), but we can split it up. The total is now 24 and not 20 then. Let's see what others think.

As well as agreeing on the criteria do we want to propose some contenders? Maybe lights that are readily available in the UK and can be sensibly used for nighttime fellrunning? From yours maybe the PT Apex would make the list?

This could just turn out to be THE light thread of light threads. And as we've been told:

Threads on head torches:

here here here here here here and here's one on bike lights where head torches get a mention.

There are probably more but I got bored .

there are a few out there.

[Fellhound]

I'm a fan of the 14LED Petzl Duo. I'm not a fan of scoring systems because they are always unfair in some way but I'll have a stab.....

Brightness (3) No idea of the lumens but it gives a good flood of light just where you need it for running.
Battery (3) I've never tested it exhaustively but four AA rechargeables seem to last quite a few hours (overnight wnen I've been trying to run them down for recharging!). A charger is dirt cheap and the batteries will recharge 1000 times, so thats 20 years if I charge them weekly!
Build (4) this is a bullet-proof lamp. Built for the rigours of caving.
Bulk (2) it's a bit bulkier and heavier than some but you don't really notice that once it's on the head.
Budget (3) It's between £80 and £90 depending where you get it.
Buttons (4) simple twist switch for the LEDs (twist once, twice or three times for the three settings) with a locking tab and a simple zoom control for the Halogen or Luxeon LED.

So, my 6Bs score for the Duo14 is 19 out of 24. I don't think anything is realistically going to get 24 because, as we know, everything is a compromise.

[wheezing donkey]

.......
So here are my scores for some lights I have.

Name,               Brightness, Battery, Build, Bulk, Budget, Buttons
PT Apex (upgraded)  2           3          4       2     3         3
BD Spot             1           3          2       4+    4         2
BD Ion              .5          3          3       4++   4         2
Home Made 4led      4           2          1       2     3         4

Ifor

Ifor,
You quote the BD Ion(just a low powered back-up light), what about the BD Icon - a similar 3w hyperbright + 4x superbright LED format as the PT Apex.
It seems silly of BD to have 2 names in their range that can so easily be confused by omitting just one letter.
I've looked on PT's website but cannot see the new upgraded Apex, which was forecast some 6 months ago.
Or is your upgrade a "Candle Power Forums' Special"?