Ankle Pain - not achilles?

[PeteS]

Not sure what this is and so not sure how best to treat it - any advice would be gratefully received.

For some months now, I seem to be getting pain in the ankle area which is hard to pinpoint and doesn't seem to be easily located with the odd prod or two. I would say it is to the rear or side of the achilles and the achilles tendon itself does not seem inflamed, though is probably tighter than it should be. I can often do short runs without pain and it seems to be going down hill that brings it on. Day after a run, it can be sore even if it didn't hurt at the time.
The usual RICE treatment eleviates it for a while but it returns next time I hit the hills. Have rested completely and tried running on the flat to no avail.
Have not had new shoes or anything else that I can think may have triggered this.

Any ideas?

[Daletownrunner]

Not sure what this is and so not sure how best to treat it - any advice would be gratefully received.

For some months now, I seem to be getting pain in the ankle area which is hard to pinpoint and doesn't seem to be easily located with the odd prod or two. I would say it is to the rear or side of the achilles and the achilles tendon itself does not seem inflamed, though is probably tighter than it should be. I can often do short runs without pain and it seems to be going down hill that brings it on. Day after a run, it can be sore even if it didn't hurt at the time.
The usual RICE treatment eleviates it for a while but it returns next time I hit the hills. Have rested completely and tried running on the flat to no avail.
Have not had new shoes or anything else that I can think may have triggered this.

Any ideas?

I had probs with ankle/ heel pain for about 12 months a couple of years ago (it still niggles now) mine wasn't confined to the achilles but all over the ankle area, so bad sometimes that I though I'd fractured my heel, tried physio which made it worse & rest ice etc which did nothing, I found it worse when I set off and could, if I suffered run it off after 2-3 miles which didn't make for pleasant running, a guy a work recommended Serrapeptase (I think thats the right spelling) which wasn't cheap but being desperate I tried, after a couple of days the pain had gone enough to train reasonably well (gone enough for me to re-Google to check it wasn't a banned substance!!) my feelings are that it may be all in the mind as a couple of other people I know have tried it and some it has worked for and some think it's total rubbish, may be worth a try, hope this helps as I know how miserable it is with this sort of pain.

[PeteS]

I had probs with ankle/ heel pain for about 12 months a couple of years ago (it still niggles now) mine wasn't confined to the achilles but all over the ankle area, so bad sometimes that I though I'd fractured my heel, tried physio which made it worse & rest ice etc which did nothing, I found it worse when I set off and could, if I suffered run it off after 2-3 miles which didn't make for pleasant running, a guy a work recommended Serrapeptase (I think thats the right spelling) which wasn't cheap but being desperate I tried, after a couple of days the pain had gone enough to train reasonably well (gone enough for me to re-Google to check it wasn't a banned substance!!) my feelings are that it may be all in the mind as a couple of other people I know have tried it and some it has worked for and some think it's total rubbish, may be worth a try, hope this helps as I know how miserable it is with this sort of pain.

Thanks for the advice and like you, physio seems to make things worse. Been trying some eccentric achilles exercises and since I eased off on those, it seems to be a bit better; also cut out climbing as that can put quite a strain on the ankles when balancing on small holds. I can still feel it niggling away though not so bad as I feel I have to stop running completely. However, weekly mileage is way down and have had to adapt runs to cut out any steep descents. Strangely, ascents don't seem to be a problem.
If I knew what I was dealing with, then I'm sure I could make in roads but I'm pretty sure its not achilles tendonitis and can't find any other candidates.
I had heard about serrapeptase, but haven't found much hard evidence to suggest it does much other being a mild anti-inflammatory. Think I'll stick to the 49p tesco ibuprofen for now but thanks again anyway.

[Daletownrunner]

Thanks for the advice and like you, physio seems to make things worse. Been trying some eccentric achilles exercises and since I eased off on those, it seems to be a bit better; also cut out climbing as that can put quite a strain on the ankles when balancing on small holds. I can still feel it niggling away though not so bad as I feel I have to stop running completely. However, weekly mileage is way down and have had to adapt runs to cut out any steep descents. Strangely, ascents don't seem to be a problem.
If I knew what I was dealing with, then I'm sure I could make in roads but I'm pretty sure its not achilles tendonitis and can't find any other candidates.
I had heard about serrapeptase, but haven't found much hard evidence to suggest it does much other being a mild anti-inflammatory. Think I'll stick to the 49p tesco ibuprofen for now but thanks again anyway.

Had another thought on my run in to work this morning, I live a the top of a reasonably steep long hill, when it was bad I walked down the hill as the hill caused it grief, more the pounding of the heel down on the incline so probably the key is to run flatter runs, I can't take Ibruprofen as it tends to give me a tight chest but I'm of the mind that had I used it, it would have had the same effect as the Serrapeptase.

[PeteS]

Had another thought on my run in to work this morning, I live a the top of a reasonably steep long hill, when it was bad I walked down the hill as the hill caused it grief, more the pounding of the heel down on the incline so probably the key is to run flatter runs

I guess I had already reluctantly resigned myself to that but didn't want to admit to it!
However, I've been reading some other posts on here and have another theory that it may be shoe related afetr all. I know downhill definitely aggravates the problem in fell shoes but I recently ran a very hilly road 10k in lightweight racing flats and the descents did not cause me an issue. Usually train in Wave Harriers (and have for years) so will try a change of shoe - one with a less robust heel cup - and see how I get on. Anythings worth a try!

[Mike T]

Could be Achilles bursitis. Apparently stretching Soleus can be useful - like an Achilles stretch but with the knee bent. As has been been mentioned shoes with a softer heel cup can help, as can a higher heel - either different shoes or adding a heel cup.

[PeteS]

Could be Achilles bursitis.

You might be on to something there Mike - symptoms sound about right as I'm pretty sure its not the tendon itself. The onset of this followed not long after I had had some problems with a tight calf. Had physio and stretched that out but although that's much better it can still be troublesome on occasion. Perhaps better up the calf stretches again and see how I go. Probably worth a change of shoes too - I'd already got some roclite 295s for when the wave harriers gave out. I'll give them a go - seem a bit softer in the heel and bit roomier too.

Cheers!

[Fozzy42]

Not sure what this is and so not sure how best to treat it - any advice would be gratefully received.
Have not had new shoes or anything else that I can think may have triggered this.
Any ideas?

Possibly therein lies the answer Pete. Try out some new footwear with more cushioning. A friend had similar symtoms and laid off the hills for a while, did most of his runs on grass for a few weeks and had some sorbothane heels gels put in the new trainers. So far so good, things seem to have improved and he's running well again, although he hasnt done much on the fells, thats going to start next week, so we'll see how gets on then, that'll be the real test.

[PeteS]

Possibly therein lies the answer Pete. Try out some new footwear with more cushioning. A friend had similar symtoms and laid off the hills for a while, did most of his runs on grass for a few weeks and had some sorbothane heels gels put in the new trainers. So far so good, things seem to have improved and he's running well again, although he hasnt done much on the fells, thats going to start next week, so we'll see how gets on then, that'll be the real test.

Cheers for that.
Did a tentative run in my road shooes today. Not much pain at the time but a little sore now. Going to change to the roclites but do flatter runs for a while. Hopefully the calf stretches will also help.

[PeteS]

Update:
Have not had an official diagnosis but I am working on the assumption that it is bursitis.
I've had some advice from other forumites (thanks everyone!) and after some research, retro-calcaneal bursitis sounds like the most likely candidate.
Although I still have some pain, it has improved a lot recently although admittedly I am generally avoiding any steep descents or at least taking them very, very easy.
So far the following seems to be helping:
1. Regular stretching of calf, ITB etc and strengthening of quads/vastus medialus etc, but had to lay off anything in the achilles area.
2. Only doing one long run a week, with 2 shorter "quality" runs.
3. Cut weekly ascent/descent down to a minimum - usually <2000'.
4. Change of shoes with less differential and a softer heel cup. (Now in roclite 295s but was mainly in Wave Harriers).
The Mrs has also taken to teaching me yoga which I think has had a beneficial effect not only on my ankle but my running in general.
Aiming to do the the Cardington Cracker next week which will be my first serious outing in the hills for a few months. I am then taking a few months off from races - or maybe some short XC to tide me over - so that may also help.