10,000ft a week

[andy k]

ZHR

regarding squats.
yes they can be a good help with strength for descending, training
Eccentric contaction of the muscle.
that is contraction against a lenthening force.
Its what happens when you brake as you descend.
the same action is produced as you drop into a squat.
There are a couple of reasons to do squats with weights.
1 - the momentum of running multiples the forces as you hit the ground on a descent (hence it can hurt alot the next day). To mimick this you need to add weight to your squats. (which can also hurt alot the next day, so build up gradually.
2 - lifting a weight forces you to focus on correct technique of movement.
an unweighted squat, you just do without thinking.
add 20 odd kgs and suddenly you become aware of the need to engage all sorts of muscles to maintain control, you have to apply a technique.

If you are goign to do them then I'd absolutely recommend you have a quick session with a lifting expert to get some coaching on correct technique.

I'd suggest you don't aim to build up to massive weights, instead aim to increase reps.

I've found squats have reduced post descending muscle pain. I used them this time last year in my BG build up (though dropped them later as my fell climbing increased). 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps at 40kg
More recently I've been doing lighter more dynamic squats - 25kg dropping quickly in and jumping out. First time I did 10sets 10 reps - too many, stiff and achey down hamstrings and back.
next time i did 5 sets 10 reps - still stiff
next time 3 sets 10 reps - ok

So from that experience I'd recommend you start with just 2 sets 10 reps with 20kg. build an extra set in each time you go (twice a week) build up to 10 sets. then go up to 25kg.
You might feel sluggish running the day after.

NB
warm up with a couple of sets of slow controlled squats (not dynamic)
and start with advice on technique

[ZootHornRollo]

absolutely brilliant that Andy, ta!

[andy k]

pleasure.
It might be worth spending a couple of weeks only doing slow and controlled, before getting into drop and jump.

[Steve Zodiac]

Just to add to Andy K (Re Squats) No problem with squats as a general body strengthener with some emphasis on the quads - there's a big difference in effect between free weight squats and machine squats to be considered. If I were wanting an excercize which would isolate my quads using free weights I would choose lunges. Lunges done in correct style mimic the weght forward action of descending runner. lunges can be done using two dumbells or a small barbell. Check this dude out, I could have chosen from a few examples but this guy made me laugh most On a serious note his 'form' in executing the excersize is good - a few reps of these will have you hurting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWInSl98Fhk

[Beowulf]

I could have got through my day quite happily without seeing those shorts!

[ZootHornRollo]

there's a big difference in effect between free weight squats and machine squats to be considered

and what's that? I'm assuming free weights is 'better'?

thanks for the lunges suggestion

[andydubois]

THe dynamic squats suggested by Andy K is a great exercise for helping develop the eccentric strength runners need . I've written a couple of blogs on resistance training for runners that takes the concept a little further.

http://andydubois.blogspot.com/2009/...rs-part-1.html

http://andydubois.blogspot.com/2009/...rs-part-2.html

Hope you find in interesting

[Steve Zodiac]

and what's that? I'm assuming free weights is 'better'?

thanks for the lunges suggestion

That's the difference with free 'free squats' (Classic Barbell on the back of your shoulders) You have to 'balance' and 'control' the ascent and decent of the weights - which 'works out' lots of other stabilising muscles. Great if you want a general work out. There is a more difficult to perfect technique where the barbell is held across the chest 'hooked' onto the front of your shoulders and kept in place with crossed arms - this places the weight further forward and works the lower quads more. There are many techniques when doing 'free weight' assisted squats, slight differences in foot position and heal elevation can also further isolate areas of the quads - which are a massive muscle group after all. If you know an old time bodybuilder (Who uses free weights more than chrome machines) He/She would be worth buying a pint (of protein supplement!) and get some guidance on 'form' and execution. With the advent of Chrome and carpet gyms a lot of the old barbell techniques have gone in my opinion! The obvious advantage of learning and perfecting free weight technique is that you can do in the garage cheaply. Hope this helps along with other folks stuff.

[Steve Zodiac]

Just read your links Andy D - (minus the snazzy shorts!) I naturally came to lunges based on passed weight lifting experience for other sports, I haven't tried them specifically for running yet, but may experiment when I feel I'm not getting enough ascent/decent in to see if it benefits me - Have you used lunges or any of the techniques in your articles to supplement or replace hill ascent/descent and if so - did you notice the difference?

[ZootHornRollo]

In the BMF sessions we do a lot of what I suppose you'd call dynamic lunges or jump-lunges, where you jump between left and right side lunge, staying in the same spot. Hard work.