The "Championship Races 2023" thread has drifted into a discussion on what is the best short race. So to keep that one on topic, here's a new thread.
So far we have had Callow and Dunnerdale suggested. I would offer Scafell Pike: and not just because it is the last race I ran. It is even steeper than Callow: 900m of climbing and descent in 7.2km. Of course, if steepness is the only criterion, there is the Wasdale Head Show race up Kirkfell: more than 700m vertical in under 4km horizontal.
In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
Jorge Luis Borges
Well I will say it again anyway- Callow for reasons already stated but just to reiterate, it packs in probably the best climbs and scenery the Long Mynd has to offer in just over 8k.
The stated climb is 760m but in my last 3 attempts, Strava reckons an average of 850m. The 4 big climbs have their own segments with average gradients:
Ashlet 34%
Townsbrook 36%
Grindle 26%
Callow 30%
Pete Shakespeare - U/A
Going downhill fast
Stop it Pete.Originally Posted by PeteS
You're frightening me!
Visibility good except in Hill Fog
Be afraid... Be very afraid!
Last edited by PeteS; 11-10-2022 at 03:55 PM.
Pete Shakespeare - U/A
Going downhill fast
I am assuming that Yorkshire is excluded in this because it has the unfair advantage of so many great short races like Burnsall and Buckden Pike?The "Championship Races 2023" thread has drifted into a discussion on what is the best short race. So to keep that one on topic, here's a new thread.
So far we have had Callow and Dunnerdale suggested. I would offer Scafell Pike: and not just because it is the last race I ran
(Btw I have done Dunnerdale, won V60, couldn't see what all the fuss was about and never went back).
Incidentally Anthony, I have the results for Scafell Pike in 1992. It was an unusual race and only had 10 runners, nine of whom were from CFR. The odd one out was a Borrowdale runner and he, Jonny Bland, won by a comfortable margin.
But every runner went home with a prize, including the marshals! There is a lot to be said for small fields.
Last edited by Graham Breeze; 11-10-2022 at 04:41 PM.
"...as dry as the Atacama desert".
Best doesn't mean most climb, necessarily. I like dunnerdale because it's a very nice little tour, and feels like a miniature 3 shires.
Callow for me is the severity and battering of the climbs and descents... it seems to feel harder becuase i'm sure most of us would prefer a straight 2500ft climb then descent, but this is 4 x brutal 600ft climbs with 4 descents.
People do say that there is absolutely no flat on Callow, but if you add up the start field charge, the flat run to the 2nd climb, the runnable parts over the 2nd & 3rd tops, and the valley run before the last climb, there's possibly up to a mile of flat.... but the other 4 miles are vicious.
I would also like to experience the Wasdale Show race.
Also... our definition of short races is definitely skewed compared to the vast majority of other club runners.... Callow for example takes me 1hr10-1hr15 yet is technically a short.... that kind of time is further than 10 mile road race for most club runners, getting on for half-marathon distance for some!
I have looked at those results, and the organiser's comments are interesting, as they are for other Scafell Pike races around that time. And is this the only instance of a runner winning a race one year and then coming last in the same race the following year (Alan Bowness)?Incidentally Anthony, I have the results for Scafell Pike in 1992. It was an unusual race and only had 10 runners, nine of whom were from CFR. The odd one out was a Borrowdale runner and he, Jonny Bland, won by a comfortable margin.
But every runner went home with a prize, including the marshals! There is a lot to be said for small fields.
On the subject of Callow vs Scafell Pike: as Travs has pointed out, it all depends on whether you prefer one long climb and descent, or several short but brutal climbs and descents in quick succession. My first two Category A races were Ben Lomond and Goat Fell; it was only when I started fell racing in England that I discovered that it was possible to have a race with several climbs and descents, and I still have a great affinity for races that go up and down a single big mountain. I enjoyed Pen y Fan when I did it a few years ago (but would have enjoyed it more in cooler temperatures and without a calf niggle), and another Welsh race I would like to do is Elidir Fawr.
In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
Jorge Luis Borges
I think that the biggest difference between between races that have either the one long climb and descent and the multiple climbs and descents in quick succession is the ability to save the legs.
In the former, the legs don't need saving on the descent for the next climb but in the latter they do.
I would suggest that the multi ascent/descent race is the tougher but, as they say, horses for courses!
Visibility good except in Hill Fog
Well I think the shorter punchier climbs suit me best - nothing big where I live so can't train for anything like that around here.
If I had to go for a straight up and down, single summit, I'd probably plump for Dale Head or Glaramara. Both around 8k and 700m, climbs/descents broken into 2 distinct sections with some route choice to add to the mix. Callow is tougher though.. ��
Pete Shakespeare - U/A
Going downhill fast
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