I think Scoat fells a bit of a cheat seeing as all BG contenders go over it anyways, or have we all done a 43 peak roundOriginally Posted by ydt
Good, let's have a definitive BG plan. And, please sort Scoat Fell out.
I might have to attempt another extension, to comply with the committee's decision on approved extras. Better start training.
Yiannis*
Either that or you'll have to deduct one top for the Lakes 24 hour records
*this is from someone who couldn't manage an extra two
Bill
I don't think Green Side has ever been included as an extra although I considered including it once.
Scoat Fell: see previous comment by Baggins.
Lingmell has been included in the 24hr Lakeland record but not in extended BGs - it is too costly.
Crag Hill and Grasmoor heve been included in the more serious BG extensions but they bring other extras with them. Doing them in isolation is not feasible.
The rest ar ok.
Yiannis
My suggestion would be to pick 8 of the extra peaks Mark Hartell did, which gives you 35 to pick from. If any of these are good enough to count for the Lakes record, then surely they're good enough for you! If yours aren't on that list then they're either too much extra (which was why Mark didn't do them) or they're too small.
(=> Scoat Fell in, Green Side out!)
P.S. There's confusion about what Bob's original peaks were so don't worry too much about it all! See -
http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/run/bgr_history.htm
Joe, I think that there is some logic in what you suggest as criteria for the future.
Saying that extra peaks for 50 at 50, 55 at 55 or 60 at 60 rounds should only be those that would qualify as a 24 Hour Fell Record peak has an elegant simplicity that appeals to me at least.
I have Fred Rogerson's original calculations of additional peaks for 24 Hour Fell Record purposes. If you add the extra peaks that qualify under the 24HFR criteria and then add back the basic 42 of the BG, you get a grand total of 105 peaks. That would give 63 to chose from. (To put it another way, there are 28 peaks that qualify that Mark Hartell didn't traverse.)
Any views?
And one of these days I will get round to doing the 24 Hour Fell Record page for the Club website and list these extra peaks.
The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.
I still argue that 50@50, 55@55 & 60@60 are established routes, established by the first to do each of them.
That isn't to say each route can't be made more difficult by adding peaks for perhaps a 56@56 or 56@55, which is what was done from 42 to 50 to 55 to 60.
My main concern is that, as Geoff Davis did, people look at 50@50 schedules and decide they "add too much to the basic BG" and so they go off to find 8 extra doable peaks (Fellrunner Autumn/Winter 2007). I am not saying Geoff Davis didn't do a 50@50 but I am saying he didn't do THE 50@50 and what he did was an easier 50@50 which shouldn't be considered the same as Ed Hill's. If some of the original 42 were to be considered too difficult could they be substituted?
Last edited by FellShoeShuffler; 27-02-2009 at 11:30 PM.
As Joe pointed out, what we currently consider to be the "Bob Graham round" isn't
The following is the list from Baddeley which is the earliest printed list I've so far come across - I need to check with the Cumberland Herald as I believe Bob Graham's round was reported in that.
Keswick - Skiddaw - Great Calva - Blencathra - Wanthwaite Pike (I think this is Clough Head) - Helvellyn - Dollywaggon Pike - Fairfield - Seat Sandal - Steel Fell - Calf Crag - High White Stones - High Raise - Sergeant Man - Harrison Stickle - Pike O’ Stickle - Rossett Pike - Hanging Knotts - Bowfell - Esk Pike - Great End - Scafell Pike - Scafell - Yewbarrow - Red Pike - Steeple - Pillar - Kirkfell - Great Gable - Green Gable - Brandreth - Dale Head - Hindscarth - Robinson - High Snab - Keswick.
Whilst familiar, it isn't what we call the BGR, there's the Dodds missing for a start. At least three tops that BG counted were substituted by the Heatons and it is their version of Bob Graham's round that we use today.
I like the idea of an "approved list", let's say it consists of twenty to twenty five tops. Choose any eight (for the fifty, thirteen for the fifty five) from that list perhaps with the rider that at least X must come from the Grassmoor group. The latter means that the basic round really is extended rather than just modified.
Whatever's decided, I don't think we should deny the existing list their rounds.
Which route do people use to bag the Grasmoor Peaks?
Do they go via Braitwaite and Coledale Beck ?
Turn right at NY 237 213 for Stair then Causey Pike.
Some really interesting stuff, many thanks for the responses. Prior to this thread I had decided that the Ed Hill route was the one I ought to do. As he was the first (as far as I know) to 'extend' the BG round as we now know it. This was hard as I'm not sure I can do that, (sub 24) but, I wanted to run 50 peaks in my 50th year & if I didnt make it sub 24, well I can live with that. It would still be a great days adventure in a place I love with friends.
If some form of guideline doesnt exist, then my fear would be that as 50 attempts become more popular Im assuming they will) they would be made as easy as possible and potentially dilute the current BG round. I also think we would lose touch with the original, excellent rounds of 50.
I also think a good point has been made about MHs 24HFR and available peaks.
I would like a steer from the BG comittee, but my view would be the 6 peaks from the Grassmoor group and any 2 others from the list. When asked what extra 2 you chose, you could say Pavey & Allen crags (Ed Hill & the other early guys) or Scoat & Mungrisdale common or whatever, but folk take responsibility for that, its thier call.
I think anyone who runs 50 peaks at 50 yrs achieves an impressive thing & all the rounds done so far have my respect. But some guidelines now, I think, would help shape the future without losing whats valuable in the past.
Ed Hill's 50 included the 6 NW Fells and then Skiddaw Little Man and Scoat Fell. This is the round repeated by Don Talbot and Paul Murray amongst others.
Edwin Coope attempted it but was beaten (twice) by the weather and preferred to attempt the 'real 50' and fail rather than succeed with an easier 50.
The 6 NW Fells must be included in the case of a 50. In the case of a 55 it must include those plus Grasmoor. I realise this doesn't leave much to be selected from the 'buffet of additional fells' but it is those fells on the 'wrong side' of Newlands Hause that extend the round rather than merely provide a variation.
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