Lola, You don't look old enough to talk like thatOriginally Posted by Lola
I've got to broad stand as two others were stating out (with Top rope ) and took the Western travers and beat one of them to the top. I don't think you are talking more than a minutes difference. Can't comment on Foxes Tarn though.
Someone I know always goes Foxes Tarn way, even if the contender is using Broad Stand. I'm pretty sure he doesn't use the traverse under the crags either. From what I've been told, he generally makes it to the top around the same time, or even quicker, particularly on wet days.
All good stuff ladies and gents, but still not a sniff of who might have been responsible for placing the bolts.
I am hoping that no news is good news and that runners/BG supporters are not responsible for this. The general condemnation flowing through this thread should reassure passers by of our mind set on these matters. Thank you for your contributions.
After the antics of some support parties at Brackenclose and with the ongoing state of discussions between the FRA and the NT about Lakeland races, another hot potato we can well do without.
The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.
What about Brown, Whillans, Boysen et al? They weren't averse to placing a peg or two, or standing in slings on their routes.
I take it you've never climbed in winter in Scotland then? I placed plenty of pegs north of the border last winter! Quite the norm.
I've climbed routes in Yosemite entirely on aid. I'm pretty sure i could never train to the level required to crack them and climb them free. The Huber brothers and Leo Houlding might though.
I've tried all ways on Scafell, and Broadstand is 10-12 minutes quicker for me than Foxes or Lords Rake. You also don't lose any height, which i like after 14 hours on the go.
On my 24 hour record attempt on 23 May the ropes were already there. Apparently there was a total of 5 bolts and a peg and there were 3 ropes. There was also a wire ladder which my supporters removed (I think).
I think it may well be a runners gear. The use of ladders shows how far people will go..Maybe worth sticking something on the BGR site as guidance that this sort of thing isn't on.
Could it possibly be the National Trust that did it, in order to save the rock from being scratched by climbers' fingernails?
Yiannis
I am predominantly a sports climber and have equipped with bolts and done several new routes on Derbyshire Limestone. Amongst climbers there are designated crags where bolting is accepted and crags where it is not (and infact completely unacceptable). Accepted crags tend to be steep limestone in the Dales and Derbyshire as well as some other sea cliffs in the South and Wales. Also slate. Often the new bolted routes take blank walls and overhangs that do not have natural protection eg cracks, breaks for gear including pegs.
It is accepted that Welsh, Scottish, gritstone edges, Pembroke and of course Lakes mountain crags are bolt free. Also routes originally done on now bolted crags remain bolt free and to retro bolt is usually seen as a crime by climbers and bolts are removed. The addition of any bolt to Scafell crag would be viewed in horror irrespective of how hard the climb is, and these bolts will need removing with minimal extra damage. I am sure the guys in Needle sports will have the technology to remove the articles.
broadly speaking you dont actually remove the bolt. Most bolts are are banged into 10mm holes and hopefully drilled too deep for the bolt. Therefore, remove the hanger, hacksore as much of the thread off the top as possible and then with a hammer knock the remaining bolt down in to its hole. Aim to leav nothing pretruding. Then with some epoxy or sika dur substance than should be made to match the rock, fill in the hole.
Please dont go mob handed and try and knock them out, you wont get them out, (They are well and trully expanded in the hole. All you will do is create a scar that will be even worse (sorry just as bad as the bolt).
Sorry this is a a bit pedantic but its important to get the job done as properly as possible.
[QUOTE=BLUEBIKE;227205]Hammer them out!!! If this is a fell runner/group then it will REALLY piss the climbing community off as this is a BIG no no!!
Please no, see earlier reply.......why would anyone want to piss the climbing community off anyway? I know many people who are fanatical runners, walkers and climbers/mountain lovers.
I was Steve B's 'ropeman' for his BG record attempt and was on Broadstand on Saturday 23rd May. I did not place any bolts or pegs, or any gear at all!
Ironically I left before he arrived as it was already so well rigged with three ropes and a wire ladder. One rope ran from top to bottom of the whole route, with (I think) five bolts spirally up the route with a black semi-static rope. There was also a wire ladder hanging down the top step and long enough to swing wildly about onto the bottom step. On both ends of the ladder was a laminated card stating that the ladder had been rigged for a 'Charity Run on 15/16th May.... it will be removed, etc' I deduce that the bolts and at least the black rope were part of that rigging. The other ropes may have been a separate thing. There was no contact details on the label for those responsible. On the positive side, the standard of rigging was relatively good, ie, position of the bolts and black rope, although the use and positioning of the wire ladder, not so good! Leaving it unattended was dangerous - leaving it a week totally unforgiveable!
The wire ladder is no longer there, as it is in my garage, but I will willingly return it to the rightful owner if s/he contacts me. Other suggestions as to what to do with it are also welcome.
That's the facts as I know them, and may aid any investigation (no pun intended!)
Joe Faulkner
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