Paddy Buckley shortcuts

[RobW]

Contd from http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?t=8102

I think that is happening with the Paddy now, hence the spate of quick times and far fewer failures.

There's a few trods for the route now getting developed but I also think the route is now fairly well known by a lot more people, with all the short cuts fairly well worked out.

BTW with Mary did you take the direct descent of Yr Aran or down the ridge and round via the wall?

Good point Iain.

Yr Aran descent - Mary took ridge and wall. I haven't been converted to the direct descent but haven't looked at it for ages. You like that one I take it?

Trods - yes, I notice these are surprisingly obvious at:-
1. descent to Bwlch y Rhediad - Having only a vague recollection of it I followed it easily altho had to look for the start
2. bypass route above Craig yr Ysfa en route to Pen Llithrig
3. crossing to the dam before Cnicht

Nothing on the Llyn Conglog outflow descent as yet, though

[IainR]

I've always gone around, the way Mary went then, on Yr Aran. I think the direct is quicker, but for most of us that section is in dark and I think it's a bit of a risk through some tough terrain unless you're got it 100% sorted.

I'd reccied both but on my round we were in thick cloud so with time in hand there was no need for a risk.

The most obvious development I've seen is the descent from the last peak on the Carneddau.

Not checked out the long run across to Cnicht for a while.

The moelwyns leg is the section I know least, I really need to spend a while checking out the Bwlch y Rhediad descent because that's worth a good few minutes.

I never used the Craig yr ysfa bypass until I went around that section with Alan Duncan on Ali Welsh's round. We didn't get it spot on either in the clag so I'll check that out again.

TBH I think the Bowland and Dark Peak lot have spent longer recceing this route than most of us who live here.

I've missed the trod across Banog to Hebog the last two times, but it's OK without. I've still not found anything up banog, I just go directly up the river to the shelter in coed aberglaslyn, and then directly up past the farm house, derelict barn, then mountain wall juntion, then summit, it's a very direct line, with odd trods.

[IainR]

Went out on the Craig Wen leg last night.

Which side of the wall do you go up? On mine I went RHS, last night LHS, seemed a bit better.

There seemed to be no obvious trod getting to the summit but the trod/path has really developed along the summit ridge.

Yr Aran descent

Last night Sarah took the direct descent, the top is now marked by a cairn and an obvious track is apparent, I went around. I was a lot lot quicker, she said the path ran out and she ended up down climbing lose crags. I think the direct descent cuts back R, she tended L, but it's hard to follow and easy to get wrong and be far slower. Unless you really have it wired for the limited gain I think it's best to go around.

[Baggins]

Which side of the wall do you go up? On mine I went RHS, last night LHS, seemed a bit better.

I always go left side now I think its a lot better.

Last night Sarah took the direct descent, the top is now marked by a cairn and an obvious track is apparent, I went around. I was a lot lot quicker

I would have thought it quicker. You do go to the right down a faint steep gully then your on really fast descending terrain.

You'll have to swap routes next time

Not sure I would use it if it was a black night as I don't know it well enough yet.

[Baggins]

bypass route above Craig yr Ysfa en route to Pen Llithrig

Would you care to elaborate

The most obvious development I've seen is the descent from the last peak on the Carneddau.

Do you mean the descent of Pen Llithrig? I used a line that looped to the right then cut back left to the fence, seemed ok but I've only been down the once.

[IainR]

I think you're right re yr Aran. needs checking some more but if sorted I think it's better because down and via the wall is quite rough anyway.

Pen Lithrig,. yeah you cut back right and now there is a very well developed trod all the way, a few years ago there was almost nothing here, I think it was 10 years ago I first went up it and there was nothing, then 3 years ago there were sections of trods, now it's easy to follow all the way.

Re Craig Yr Ysfa, I've not checked this out since. Alan Duncan sort of showed me on Ali Welsh's round, we went off to far R because of the clag I think so missed it, but he reckons it's faster. basically head off CL and head R then take a steep then sweeping descent down to just above the col. I've always just stuck on the path.

Been thinking about the winter and my new idea is start at 7 am from Capel, use the first hour or so of darkness to climb Siabod, then have good light until Nantlle, I reckon I can get to pont cae gors before full darkness, then dark the rest of the way. The advantage of starting in the dark is you ensure you use the full day length available and if you are quicker than 23-24 hrs you miss out more darkness.

[MorganW]

Been thinking about the winter

So sending you MS's schedule has done some good Iain.............

[IainR]

Very handy, been reading loads of schedules, it's been interesting seeing where people lose and gain time.

[RobW]

Craig Wen ascent - Kean Rowlands had a very neat route on Sat. R of the wall initially (of course), after the gate, then cross to left via a gap, cross top wall just L of wall corner, then a line which (I notice on reviewing my GPS track) swings a fair bit L of the beeline), emerging just E of the summit.

Craig yr Ysfa bypass: on reaching the flat area, with the Amphitheatre Buttress summit dead ahead, head half-R, almost immediately finding a fairly clear trod. This swings leftish, staying fairly level, with the trod continuing throughout IIRC. Soon you see the ridge to Pen yr H D heading off to the R and almost immediately you are at the top of the slabby down-scramble.

Pen Llithrig descent - heading a bit R of the obvious ridge, into the L side of the re-entrant, you pick up a good trod pretty quickly, which is mostly obvious all the way down to the first footbridge. There have been lots of little bridges installed over the many ditches which the B/W crosses on its way down to the road.

BTW we noticed an anomaly on the gofar version of the schedule, where the elev (in feet) for Foel Gron seems to refer to the highest point but the grid ref SH563566 is a minor bump at the top of the SE ridge (a race checkpoint I understand). The actual summit(s) are more or less equal in height, SH560569, wrong side of barbed wire fence by 2m.

Also from my GPS track I notice we did a slightly different version of the "beeline" descent from the Eilio ridge on Sat night; the previous time on Alan Lucker's round, Yiannis & Co had a slightly neater version, going via a little play area at SH58196. Worth a minute at a guess.

Rob

[IainR]

Craig Wen ascent - Kean Rowlands had a very neat route on Sat. R of the wall initially (of course), after the gate, then cross to left via a gap, cross top wall just L of wall corner, then a line which (I notice on reviewing my GPS track) swings a fair bit L of the beeline), emerging just E of the summit.

If you carry on the track you go through the farm having never to climb a fence and end up L of the wall, I think this may be quicker..not sure..

Craig yr Ysfa bypass: on reaching the flat area, with the Amphitheatre Buttress summit dead ahead, head half-R, almost immediately finding a fairly clear trod. This swings leftish, staying fairly level, with the trod continuing throughout IIRC. Soon you see the ridge to Pen yr H D heading off to the R and almost immediately you are at the top of the slabby down-scramble.

Need to check this out, I never considered a short cut here until AD suggested so.

Pen Llithrig descent - heading a bit R of the obvious ridge, into the L side of the re-entrant, you pick up a good trod pretty quickly, which is mostly obvious all the way down to the first footbridge. There have been lots of little bridges installed over the many ditches which the B/W crosses on its way down to the road.

Yes, this is the route. Originally this trod was patchy. It's now a lovely descent (race in the making??)

BTW we noticed an anomaly on the gofar version of the schedule, where the elev (in feet) for Foel Gron seems to refer to the highest point but the grid ref SH563566 is a minor bump at the top of the SE ridge (a race checkpoint I understand). The actual summit(s) are more or less equal in height, SH560569, wrong side of barbed wire fence by 2m.

Rob

Yes, Foel Gron has 2 summits. I've seen a few mixed references here, the route naturally passes both (like on Craig Wen) so I did both, but yes I think the correct summit is just over the fence. needs checking..but the orginal PBR summit is the first one, at the strange dog leg, for some reason..but 2064 as quoted on gofar is 629 which is the second summit - but the GR refers to the first summit..

My view is do both..

My edits added in between in italics..