Lydiard or Speed Endurance?

[CL]

In the main modern books (not read Chris's yet) tend to just give a programme without the full detail.

Hard sessions, with a long run, indoor training and a rest day has been with us since the 50's. Indeed Franz Stampfl* was saying for 3 & 6 mile events, do 4 Interval days per week.

He gave the progression though, so in November you would do 15 x 400 in x seconds, Dec would be a couple of seconds faster and by May (the start of the track season then) you would be doing 20 x 400 slightly faster than your expected racing pace.

Irrespective of how you train: If you intend to do the same in 2013 as you did in 2012, 11 & 10 you cannot expect any improvement.


*Franz Stampfl on running, first published 1955, Forward by Roger Bannister, introduction by Chris Brasher

4 interval sessions a week is too much for anyone. The only way you'd get away with it is if you ran each rep slower than you'd do if you were doing one session a week. If you did that though you'd be using an inferior method because fast sustained running (time trials) over 15-30 minutes will give you better results. Hard intervals should be done by most club runners but only once a week and sometimes less than that, particularly if they are racing.

Anyway it's all interesting stuff.

[Mike T]

Slow twitch types may not benefit from true interval training, as the fast twitch fibres that such running develops are not present in sufficient quantity. By "true" I mean 1/ at around 3k pace and 2/with short and or active recovery so that recovery is incomplete and each period of faster running becomes logarithmically harder.

[Trog]

4 interval sessions a week is too much for anyone.

It guaranteed Roger Bannister a place in history! But no I would never attempt or recommend anyone else to do it.

fast sustained running (time trials) over 15-30 minutes will give you better results.

Yes one of my core sessions a few years ago was a threshold run done on heart rate. I ran the same course once a week with my HR monitor beeping at me if I went too hard or easy, off the top of my head over a winter my time 'for the same effort' reduced from 19 odd minutes to sub 17.

Your book arrived this morning, thanks. I chose to do a 60 min steady run rather than make a start on reading it though!

[A.P.E Knott]

Genes are evertything.
As the saying goes , if you want to be a great Athlete "choose your parents wisely".
Everyone has a pre determined ability level, the key is to find the right blend of training to achieve it.

[shaunaneto]

But how many of us actually get near our limits?

[Trog]

Genes are evertything.

Not according to Matt Syed

His book 'Bounce - How Champions are made', blows the genes theory out of the water.

Preview on Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1K6bOG8mj8

[CL]

It guaranteed Roger Bannister a place in history! But no I would never attempt or recommend anyone else to do it.



Yes one of my core sessions a few years ago was a threshold run done on heart rate. I ran the same course once a week with my HR monitor beeping at me if I went too hard or easy, off the top of my head over a winter my time 'for the same effort' reduced from 19 odd minutes to sub 17.

Your book arrived this morning, thanks. I chose to do a 60 min steady run rather than make a start on reading it though!

In Bannister's book it states he started track training and would run 10x400m in 63 seconds with two-three minutes of rest. He also stated 'this was much more strenuous training than I had done before. It left me exhausted for for several days.'

He did step up his interval training to several days a week in 1953 but the pace was very slow at first I.e. 10x400 in 66 seconds (he could run 400m in 51 seconds). When he eventually got it down to 61 seconds - which is still not fast compared to his 400m PB - he had to take time off.

You can do intervals everyday of the week but what is the point if you have to go slow. Anyway glad you've got my book, hope you like it!

[Mike T]

Genes are evertything.
As the saying goes , if you want to be a great Athlete "choose your parents wisely".
Everyone has a pre determined ability level, the key is to find the right blend of training to achieve it.

Choose your mother with great care as it is from our mothers that we inherit our mitochondria, and it is our mitochondria that determine our potential for speed/strength/endurance. If your VO2 max is only 35, no amount of training is going to turn you into a champion runner.

[noel]

Choose your mother with great care as it is from our mothers that we inherit our mitochondria, and it is our mitochondria that determine our potential for speed/strength/endurance. If your VO2 max is only 35, no amount of training is going to turn you into a champion runner.

My mum was very apologetic when I told her of this. But she was keen to make up for things. She's currently doing intervals with the hope of increasing my athletic ability.

How long before I start to notice improvements? Should I be training as well?

[A.P.E Knott]

Not according to Matt Syed

His book 'Bounce - How Champions are made', blows the genes theory out of the water.

Preview on Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1K6bOG8mj8

I have read and re read it Trog, it is full of holes and akin to the flat earth society thinking.
Undoubtedly one can achieve great things from shear determination and effort but to reach the very top without the genes, its not going to happen, however many hours of practice you put in .
To think otherwise is making failures of us all who do not match the very best.
I could not run sub 50 mins for 10 miles not because I did not train hard enough (believe me I did) but because I was not born to be able to do it.
At my time of life this is a comfort to me !! to think I had the ability but wasted it is to much of a cross to bear.
We all believe that we could have done better, if only..... i didnt have to work ..... I had better coaching....I knew what I know now etc etc . But realistically most of us have given it (running ,football cricket cycling, tidily winks) our best ,or near or best shot and what we ended up with was not far of what we were capable of doing.
Syed theory of been able to achieve anything with practice is wrong and misguided .
Mind you it is a very good read.