Because many long A, B or a medium A races don't really require kit especially in the Peak District when you you are often close to a road and there are probably many medium B races that should require kit.Originally Posted by Dave_Mole
I would much prefer if the RO was trusted to make the judgement and would NEVER quible with whatever they said as it is their race and their rules.
Strange comment about the Peris.. Mike does a kit check at the gate in the car park.
Nothing has changed that much, organisers have specified waterproofs before.
But Mark whats actually changed? There's more rules for organisers, but for the runner, doing a long?
I think Craig is incomprehendably suggesting that runners won't have waterproofs.. the rules haven't changed for runners really, previously RO's could and did specifiy waterproofs, taped seems etc...
For RO's it looks a pain in the arse to be honest, the guidance may be more helpful for some races than others, but for the general runner its basically as you were..
I think the point re guidelines is good, because for the small, traily evening races I don't see why a topless run, recycled numbers is really required.
Not surprising given the present climate and recent incidents.
Runners have 2 choices.
1. Enter an Fra sanctioned race and comply with the new rules.
2. Don't run Fra races and enter BOFRA or other non Fra races.
Race Organisers have choices also.
1. Agree to implement the new rules and have your event Fra sanctioned.
2. Decide you don't like the new rules and don't want to implement them. Have your race under your own rules and don't get Fra approval
I suspect most RO organise their races these days under Fra rules primarily for the insurance, UKA affiliated clubs though have exactly the same insurance. There is no real need these days to advertise a race in the Fra calendar, there are lots of other places online and otherwise to advertise.
For most RO though most of the new rules should help especially with a tightening up of the rules regarding numbers which has caused lots discussion on this forum.
As for Waterproof as opposed to Windproof we all know as runners that there is no such thing as Waterproof, half an hour or less of running in the most expensive Waterproof kit and you
are wet through ( inside ) Breathable, rubbish, might be ok for walking or less energetic activities but for fell running forget it. If you have a mishap and are stationary or moving slowly a Waterproof jacket rather than a Windproof one might offer a minimum amount of extra protection. Gonna have to get bigger bum bags though as the bulk will be increased considerably.
Why increased? we had to carry this gear for most races previously anyway?
To clarify my concern isn't about what I'm asked to carry, thats been done to death and I think most of us agree that if the RO asks for it we'll take it - its more about things like mountain rescue on 'standby' (whatever that means) and in particular race monitoring. This is largely due to communications and last minute changes. I dont realistically expect marshals who might have left for their CP a few hours before race start to necessarily be able to know on every occasion how many runners start, never mind how many to expect through their checkpoint half way round a long race. Nor do I believe they will always be in a position to update race control in a timely way if someone is overdue - (assuming they know someone is overdue because they know how many to expect). In an ideal world they will have good comms to and from race control, will have this info and be able to act as intended. In the real world I doubt this will always be possible but in the event of an incident the RO is likely to be judged on the basis that it should be. I appreciate the rules suggest moving CPs etc to assist in achieving this but I still think it will not be achievable on every occasion and therefore I personally would like the rules to reflect that more strongly than I believe they do in the document.
As a runner rather than a RO then I agree it doesn't directly affect me too much - unless ROs start to feel that they can no longer justify holding some of their races. But ROs obviously deserve our support and I hope that by highlighting my concerns about some of the difficulties I anticipate are likely to occur I am doing that - unless all the ROs out there are entirely happy that they are going to be able to comply with the rules in which case I'll shut up.
Last edited by Mark G; 12-09-2013 at 05:12 PM.
Its more all this about having to carry more.. if you are an experienced fell runner, who all will be who do the peris, you will already have a waterproof etc...
A pre-requisite for the Peris was other L's wasn't it, so in them you are asked to carry waterpoofs.. edale... Jura...
Iain....Montane Featherlite ( Windproof ) top and bottoms fit nicely into one of the inov8 bum bags, don't bulk up too much and not heavy or uncomfortable. I think you might struggle to fit some of the lightest ( most expensive) waterproofs ( with hood ) into one of those bum bags. Tried the OMM smock and bottoms....don't fit, Gore Running wear ( Gore Tex ) jacket and bottoms.....don't fit. I can see more people carrying running sacks rather than bum bags.
Last edited by Lefty; 12-09-2013 at 05:58 PM.
But many races already stipulated taped seams.. waterproofs.
I have a mammut mica is it? satisfies kit requirements and is a similar weight to a wind proof.
The kit summary box in section 13 is a good addition, and it's good that there is a relaxation for lower risk races. Shame the first aider is mandatory for all cats.
I've previously carried waterproofs the majority of the time anyway. I don't even own any wind proof bottoms. I manage to fit a waterproof with a hood and pants into a pb bum bag along with a map, compass, whistle, gloves (buff on wrist) and gels etc with no problems. Waterproof is more bulky than wind proof but not unmanageable.
Posting Permissions
