Safety Matters

[Stolly]

That's very true. Many that do the Fellsman are walkers. They probably had a wry smile when their rucksacks full of bulky warm gear saw them right on a difficult night whilst the runners, who possibly scorned such weighty gear, came a cropper.

The blurred vision comment is interesting. It didn't prevent the 20:20 hindsight used on this forum to give those lads a kicking who were disqualified when someone they were grouped with drifted off the back without their noticing - not great but could have happened to anyone on such a vile night with such tiredness afoot. Those lads fronted up and were really honest IIRC and got murdered on here by people that should have known better.

The issue around gear is a classic case of a rule being mistake for a principle. "I was carrying the gear set out in the rules…" ignores the principle, which is "take what will keep you safe if the shit hits the fan, and factor in the weather, terrain and duration of the event".

I didn't suffer from that 20:20 vision I hasten to add as its possible to read your post Mark and think that you were referring to me. I just looked back and apart from one long post just giving my (mainly bad ) experiences of the day (post #1635 here) the only comment I can see that I made about the guys getting befuddled and degrouping was this:

As for the staying together as a group it is worrying in those sort of conditions - one member is freezing, has shot legs and is lagging behind whilst the others are freezing while they wait. Doomed if you do and doomed if you don't almost. I don't think you should have lost sight of him though - he could have just wandered off and, well, died!.

Hardly a battering eh?

[noel]

There may be some real insights in what AI says. I will read it thoroughly and not comment before I have had time to consider the points fully. The criteria I will be using to assess this long post are:
Is this new, compared with the points Mike has made at length on previous threads?
Does it propose a viable alternative to the current system?

Bear with me. This may take some time...

Well, I've tried twice now with a clear head and time on my hands to read AI's opening email. Both times I've found myself compelled to stop reading based on AIs belligerent assertions. I don't have a good attention span for diatribes.

Enjoy the argument those who do.

[alwaysinjured]

Well, I've tried twice now with a clear head and time on my hands to read AI's opening email. Both times I've found myself compelled to stop reading based on AIs belligerent assertions. I don't have a good attention span for diatribes.

Enjoy the argument those who do.

How is quoting a coroner who stated a race organiser was negligent in failing to plan for incidents and failing to instruct marshals properly belligerent? Or the fact that FRA continues to ignore such basic safety practice?

And in noting that , why do you not regard the refusal of the committee in general and executive in particular to even hear the opinions and presentation of two safety trained professionals anything other than belligerent? Are you happy that FRA are making misleading statements to a coroner on paper?

The problem with all of this Noël is that , the dominant reasons for failing to heed proper advice are all emotive, as per your use of the word belligerent - it would be a pleasant change for any of you to engage with the issues instead.

[Lecky]

I haven't read AI's posts, but do any of them contain a replacement set of rules that we could encourage the committee to consider?

I assume that is what he has been doing all this time.

[OB1]

Well, I've tried twice now with a clear head and time on my hands to read AI's opening email. Both times I've found myself compelled to stop reading based on AIs belligerent assertions. I don't have a good attention span for diatribes.

It's all down to mental strength. Think laterally. Since when have you given up on a long climb, 4 hours into a race (read 'read'), just because what you thought was the top was just but a false summit? Pop a jelly-bean and keep going. There could be a glorious decent on the other side.

[Stick]

I haven't read AI's posts, but do any of them contain a replacement set of rules that we could encourage the committee to consider?

I assume that is what he has been doing all this time.

This is a supposed to be a joke... yes...?

If not...Considering you profess to coach fell running, orienteering and long distance events I thought you'd have progressed to being able to read things for yourself by now.

I'd give up Al. This is the blinkered attitude you're up against. It's just not possible to make those who want to close their eyes and bury their heads listen or see. There's no other word for it but pathetic. Yeah, stick to your 'rules' Lecky. Good luck.

[noel]

It's all down to mental strength. Think laterally. Since when have you given up on a long climb, 4 hours into a race (read 'read'), just because what you thought was the top was just but a false summit? Pop a jelly-bean and keep going. There could be a glorious decent on the other side.

It's more like the first flat mile of the Roaches race.

[OB1]

It's more like the first flat mile of the Roaches race.

You are not saying that you'd pull out when you get to the farmyard, just 'cos you don't like the smell, are you?

[dominion]

Mike,

In respect of the case you've quoted earlier on. How would you manage this risk? How would you get ambulances across a muddy field in a cross country race, let alone up a mountain side in a fell race? If you listen to that coroner, then anything beyond laps of a park with tarmac paths, or round a track is an unmanageable risk. From what I've vaguely heard, the recommendations to UKA as a result of this were completely impractical for multi-lap cross country races, let alone races across unmarked bleak mountains.

[Witton Park]

You can't just hire in First Aid cover or allocate a couple of trained first aiders. You need a plan.
Where do you place them?
How many teams?
What vehicle resource do they have and do they need?
Is coverage of the event area sufficient?

Do you remember the National at Alton Towers? The First Aid asked for a delay in the races because they were inundated with cases in areas they had difficulty accessing. 2 of the remaining races were diverted as a result. So there was a plan, a what if.

It is not sufficient to just hire in first aid cover.

I provide all marshalls with contact details for the MRT, the Race Referee (I have one at all my races) and me.
They know to contact MRT first.
MRT have a marshall map so they know exactly where to go if "Derek" gets in touch.

MRT are clear on how to get out of the event area - we have barriers at Witton and they need to get through them. Imagine if the had a serious causualty and were stopped 20 minutes at the barrier.