Safety Matters

[TheHeathens]

Eff that!

Jesus 80% of fell races are 5 to 8 miles long over baby hills. We're not wrestling tigers ffs!

What are the current kit requirements for said races?

You guys are the experts, I'm just putting forward a new idea. Perhaps you could apply it to races in a certain class.

Think of it as extra CPD Stolly

The experienced people would fly through it and it might save a life or two for the less experienced.

[Stick]

Hi Heathens, I agree with you that experience is the way to go, but I believe the certification route - esp the on-line one you describe - is the slippery path to a runners permit and wouldn't really achieve anything (...and that is an anathema to many fell runners minds...though I can only speak for me of course!)

All the online courses/tests I've ever done have been too basic to really test anyones real knowledge and understand, and moreover application in practice and certainly a Computer Based Training package would be hard pressed to test someone's abilities to find safety when they're lost in the e.g. howgills or a more wilder/hostile environ.

Races like the Ben have 'experience' qualification pre-requisites which I think are a better way to go as a 'qualification' for the tougher races rather than a training course, especially one which lets be honest, could be taken in the warmth, with a mate helping out. And I think I'm right in saying that the BNRA introduced this after their tragedy involving an inexperienced runner.

[HUGH JARSE]

anyone really serious about fell running would join a club, surely?

Can I not be serious about fell running without being a member of a club? If not:why not?

[Dave_Mole]

I was being ironic: see my earlier post.

[TheHeathens]

Hi Heathens, I agree with you that experience is the way to go, but I believe the certification route - esp the on-line one you describe - is the slippery path to a runners permit and wouldn't really achieve anything (...and that is an anathema to many fell runners minds...though I can only speak for me of course!)

It's not perfect but if we're serious about saving lives, then surely more education is the way to go. It would only be an hour or so, annually or even every two years so it's not an overly arduous task.

All the online courses/tests I've ever done have been too basic to really test anyones real knowledge and understand, and moreover application in practice and certainly a Computer Based Training package would be hard pressed to test someone's abilities to find safety when they're lost in the e.g. howgills or a more wilder/hostile environ.

You can't account for everything but at least it would allow the basics to be taught, e.g. What to head for if lost, how to get your bearings, IDEAL KIT, etc etc. I'm not the expert in this area but I do a lot of online learning through work and some of the new courses are spot on. Many of them are video based ones that you can watch on your phone, ipad, tv so fairly convenient.

If you want to get an idea of how this could be presented, google MOOC (Massive Open Online Course) which is basically University lectures delivered online. I've done a few of them and currently doing one on public speaking - some of them are really good.

Races like the Ben have 'experience' qualification pre-requisites which I think are a better way to go as a 'qualification' for the tougher races rather than a training course, especially one which lets be honest, could be taken in the warmth, with a mate helping out. And I think I'm right in saying that the BNRA introduced this after their tragedy involving an inexperienced runner.

There's no reason you couldn't retain this system for the tougher courses, in addition to the online course.

[wharfeego]

...I'm just putting forward a new idea. The experienced people would fly through it and it might save a life or two for the less experienced.

"Save a life or two" my arse.

Exactly what I WOULDN'T like to see in fell running.

'Fell ruining' might be a better name for the sport the way things are developing.

[Stick]

Hi Heathens. I'm not against the principle of an online training course. I'm thinking back to how I learned my nav skills...started with a book (Mountaincraft - Langmuir) and worked it out myself, trial and error outdoors, days out with my partner in un-known places on nice days, and not nice days, medium fell races in the winter, longer races in the clag etc...a gradual progression. No doubt if Youtube had been around at the time I'd have looked on there too. The point I'm making is that a CBT can start on the right path.

So I agree, the FRA, SHR, WFRA should offer this as a service to members AND non-members alike. (Why not, we are good citizens ard care about all the people who enter all organisation races whether they're members of our parochial organisations or not).

But I don't agree with you on this being the foundation of a certification scheme... Educate yes, Govern no...

[Stick]

"Save a life or two" my arse.

Exactly what I WOULDN'T like to see in fell running.

'Fell ruining' might be a better name for the sport the way things are developing.

Trust me...I've seen his arse too many times at Bofra races and I too can vouch that is exactly what I wouldn't like to see in fell running...

( Ay-up wharfee...out of hibernation again...! Good luck at Coniston. )

[Witton Park]

First - who gives the instruction to these athletes? We can see from the numerous different opinions expressed on this forum that our outlooks are quite varied.
Second - who monitors, trains and assesses the instructors?
Thirdly - who sits on "OffRoad", the quango set up to ensure that the quality of training given by the instructors is up to scratch?
Fourth cost. There's a cost to such initiatives and Scuba Diving is an industry, fell running isn't.

Yes I know you have indicated online, but online, offline, by correspondence, in an exam, it doesn't matter, it's using a sledgehammer to crack a nut that isn't even there.

This is not about Safety of Competitors. Without being blasé we have had very few incidents in Fell Running - roughly one fatality per decade and some knocks and trips like Amex and if it can happen to Amex, it can happen to anyone.

This is about Race organisers. They provide a service to the sport by hosting the vast array of events for us.
We have to do our utmost to ensure that as long as they do their best, they cannot be dragged through the court system by Joe Pasquale's mob even when mistakes are made by them or their team.

I as a competitor cannot see a moment in time when I would attempt to do that to an RO. But if I am not there to make the call, I can't vouch for my connections.

[Witton Park]

Trust me...I've seen his arse too many times at Bofra races and I too can vouch that is exactly what I wouldn't like to see in fell running...

( Ay-up wharfee...out of hibernation again...! Good luck at Coniston. )

It's looking a bit saggy these days