Tonight's football thread

[Stolly]

As a follower of football but with no fixed allegience (I like Liverpool this season )I think that, even last season, Manchester United's wheels were starting to fall off. They were an accident waiting to happen this season and poor David Moyes inherited the team just as it started to fall apart.

Opponents seem to know how to play them, they've not got enough pace in attack or defense and, Mata aside, not much (any?) creativity in the midfield. David Moyes has been found tactically wanting this season too. Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton have all shown that they have the balls to try and take the game to opponents and risk losing in trying to win. David Moyes on the other hand seems to have set united up to (try and) not lose and almost poach a win. Lots of huffing and puffing but not much else.

Regardless of their current team problems I'd love to see Man United get Jurgen Klopp as their new manager.

[IainR]

As a follower of football but with no fixed allegience (I like Liverpool this season )I think that, even last season, Manchester United's wheels were starting to fall off. They were an accident waiting to happen this season and poor David Moyes inherited the team just as it started to fall apart.

Opponents seem to know how to play them, they've not got enough pace in attack or defense and, Mata aside, not much (any?) creativity in the midfield. David Moyes has been found tactically wanting this season too. Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton have all shown that they have the balls to try and take the game to opponents and risk losing in trying to win. David Moyes on the other hand seems to have set united up to (try and) not lose and almost poach a win. Lots of huffing and puffing but not much else.

Regardless of their current team problems I'd love to see Man United get Jurgen Klopp as their new manager.

When we got 89 points.. as we did the season before..

Kagawa, Mata, Rooney, Carrick all have plenty of creativity.

We also have Powell who could step in next season.. he looks a class player.. and Januzaj..

Our age is pretty good, just add 2-3 players.. we need to replace one of Vidic or Rio, Jones was brought in for one, and also a dominant central mid, we have plenty in the attacking mid but need a destroyer.

[Stolly]

I know they won it comfortably last season Iain but they really didn't deserve to. I know pundits put that down to Fergy's ability to grind out wins while playing poorly but, in reality, that was just bollocks - they mixed luck with a goodish defense and an in form Van Persie last season. This year they mixed lack of luck with a stodgy defense and a lack of/out of form Van Persie

[IainR]

I know they won it comfortably last season Iain but they really didn't deserve to. I know pundits put that down to Fergy's ability to grind out wins while playing poorly but, in reality, that was just bollocks - they mixed luck with a goodish defense and an in form Van Persie last season. This year they mixed lack of luck with a stodgy defense and a lack of/out of form Van Persie

Has Danbert hacked into your computer?

A team who wins a league over 38 games, with 5-6 games to go deserves to..

Any team who wins the league deserves to. Yes top players have to perform.. Liverpool deserve to this year, we all know City have the best squad but Sturridge, Sterling and Suarez have been superb. In fact Liverpool have had a very small active squad and a few players have been absolutely key for them and they've all performed.. thats not luck thats what a good manager gives you...

[Stagger]

Who's the main culprit in all this Iain?

Moyes
Players
Fergie
The Directors

[IainR]

Who's the main culprit in all this Iain?

Moyes
Players
Fergie
The Directors

I'd say the players..

The rest may have made genuine errors, that happens, football isnt a science, people get things wrong, Moyes doesn't deserve the sort of personal abuse dished out to him by the generals of this world. He tried his best and was found wanting. I thought he'd adapt his game at United, be more attacking to suit the ethos of the club. But I think he did his best and he comes across as a decent hard work honest guy who wanted to succeed.

But I think the players, Vidic and Rio especially, have damaged themselves by speaking out and just not being the same players. RVP too.. we'll see how it goes from here but whilst he may have made tactical mistakes a few players weren't putting shifts in like they did under Fergie.

Under Fergie no matter how badly we played we ran and ran, someone once said Fergie talent was making extraordinarily good players work harder than ordinary players, so even when things didn't go to plan we could grind out results.

[duncz]

Iain if you want to compete at the top you need top players. You say you only need 3 players. Rooney, Rvp, Mata your keeper and the young winger are your best players. The rest are average. Unless you have more youngsters coming through you going to have to spend a lot of cash and the agents are going to rip you off. The Glazers are not going to be happy having to spend 100;s of millions, loss of euro cash and share price dipping. Fergies position as a director, these are hard arsed business men they don't care what success he has had in the past he is reponsible for the mess you are in now and he will pay for it.

[IainR]

Iain if you want to compete at the top you need top players. You say you only need 3 players. Rooney, Rvp, Mata your keeper and the young winger are your best players. The rest are average. Unless you have more youngsters coming through you going to have to spend a lot of cash and the agents are going to rip you off. The Glazers are not going to be happy having to spend 100;s of millions, loss of euro cash and share price dipping. Fergies position as a director, these are hard arsed business men they don't care what success he has had in the past he is reponsible for the mess you are in now and he will pay for it.

OK.. so were Liverpool competing at the top last year? You make a definitive statement that is just incorrect. look at Liverpool. Were they average players?

Nope.. they added a few players but mainly developed from within.. all the back 4 the midfield were essentially the same.

But the core of the team were the same who finished 7th last season with a similar points total as United this year..

The 'mess we are now in'... codswallop.. we've had one bad season.

If you seriously think Kagawa and Mata are average then I suggest you watch some youtube clips..

Kagawa's class, Mata's class.. they are proven top class players.. rooney, rvp, jones, de gea, janazuj, valencia, wellbeck, carrick all have a good few years in them.

[noel]

I'd say the players..

Interesting comment. They are the same players that won the league by a street.

The only thing that has changed is the manager. It's up to him to motivate the players.

[IainR]

Interesting comment. They are the same players that won the league by a street.

The only thing that has changed is the manager. It's up to him to motivate the players.

Not all, I think Rafael, Rooney, Jones etc have put shifts in.. even if they've not played well but a few have been half hearted.. I think they knew that Moyes would go not them.

Moyes didnt do a great job, but I dont blame him for that. Thats football, but he worked hard and did his best for the club.. can everyone say that? I dont think so.