Clubs and Disciplinary Matters

[Eleanor]

We scored them in a similar way to kcac but we gave points according to how many from clayton ran in that age group; if five ran then the first clayton got five points, second got four points etc. That way, being first clayton when no-one else turned up only got you one point! We don't have a big junior section yet but it's growing.

I solve the problem of other championships simply by not pushing kids to enter them. We largely ignored the winter league and the BOFRA, FRA champs races unless they were local.

Andy, thanks for posting. Your point scoring idea is really useful. I hadn't thought of that one and I'll have a chat with others at the club about using this.

And yes, I'm the same on ignoring events that aren't local enough. Winter league is good for us, as the races are mostly 30-45 mins away from Ambleside, but BOFRA events generally too far so I'm also selective regarding which events to promote to our parents. After all, it is the parents that do the work of getting kids to events, so I think it matters a lot that they don't feel overloaded or pressured to do too much 'ferrying'. I can imagine that once parents drop out of the system because the weekend travelling all gets too much for them, then the club will suffer dramatically.

[Bo Peep]

As the subject has expanded from an insurance issue to the wider one of what is suitable for young runners to do I am back in. Gebresselasie ran 2.42 for a marathon at age 16 although I suspect this is pretty modest in the context of East African teenage athletes.

Mary Etta Boitano ran a Marathon in the USA in the early nineteen-seventies in three hours and one minute at age ten. Last time I looked her up on Google she was still running and had children who ran.

Without looking it up I suspect I would find that cross channel swimming has frequently been achieved by young boys and girls.

[Bo Peep]

I am interested in the debate about what young athletes could and should not do. I feel it has outgrown the original point of the thread.

I would argue that the people who are distressed in endurance races almost inevitably tend to be senior runners. Some of you - look at yourselves! The person who posted about under fifteen year olds costing him places has it spot on. So does the person who posted about how if there was a policy in football there wouldn't have been a place for Rooney, Owen and Milner.

I hate the macho blood and guts thing that Askwith did for this sport. Some of you revel in it. What we do is we mostly run up hill in low gears so stop fooling yourselves. Young boys and girls run as well as most of us. (Look at the Giant's Tooth Race). I can hardly believe some of the crap on here.

Chris Smale

[multi coloured]

I am interested in the debate about what young athletes could and should not do. I feel it has outgrown the original point of the thread.

I would argue that the people who are distressed in endurance races almost inevitably tend to be senior runners. Some of you - look at yourselves! The person who posted about under fifteen year olds costing him places has it spot on. So does the person who posted about how if there was a policy in football there wouldn't have been a place for Rooney, Owen and Milner.

I hate the macho blood and guts thing that Askwith did for this sport. Some of you revel in it. What we do is we mostly run up hill in low gears so stop fooling yourselves. Young boys and girls run as well as most of us. (Look at the Giant's Tooth Race). I can hardly believe some of the crap on here.

Chris Smale

Maybe not as tactful as it could be Bp but spot on, as i said earlier though the big problem is the educated nobody who is setting the rules, i am going in blind here so guessing a touch, but if there was a committee of say holmsey, stewart, and mudge i imagine the rules would be very different where the kids are concerned.

I also on another note wonder how many of the juniors are bored stiff running in their age group week in week out ?????

[dominion]

For the record, I ran a half marathon aged about 14 (it might have been 13), and ran 1:26 - which was my PB for a long time afterwards. It certainly didn't do me any harm. Prior to that race I didn't train further than 10 miles, hence why I did the first 10 miles in just over an hour and then took 26 minutes to do the last 3! When people start talking about long distance stuff it seems to be about continuous and constant long distance stuff. I'm sure it might not be a good thing doing long distance stuff week in, week out at that age, but one-offs where it's appropriate to the athlete and their background really isn't a problem. I ran that race because I wanted to, and my dad who was a pretty decent runner in his day encouraged me and prepared me for it. For a few years after that my attention turned to shorter stuff over track and cross country, but running that race is one of the few races that I can recall in any amount of detail and I don't regret it one bit. WMPT Half Marathon from Billsley Common in Birmingham for anyone that remembers it!

[Witton Park]

Maybe not as tactful as it could be Bp but spot on, as i said earlier though the big problem is the educated nobody who is setting the rules, i am going in blind here so guessing a touch, but if there was a committee of say holmsey, stewart, and mudge i imagine the rules would be very different where the kids are concerned.

I also on another note wonder how many of the juniors are bored stiff running in their age group week in week out ?????

MC - the bored stiff is down to the skill of the team around the athlete. My lot get T&F both as individual and team, road, XC and fell all from an early age. Mix it up a bit and it keeps them going.

[manothemoors]

There are certainly junior runners who are able enough and motivated enough to run further than the rules allow (and to thrash most older runners whilst they are at it). That isn't in any doubt at all. As for seniors finishing in a heap, distressed, you definitely make a good point Chris...though, there is unlikely to be anyone "pushing" a senior into doing a race that they don't want to do or are ill equipped for. Seniors can be responsible for their own decisions...juniors, by definition, can't be. The EA rules, whatever we may think of them, exist for their protection....in theory anyway.

[Witton Park]

Andy, thanks for posting. Your point scoring idea is really useful. I hadn't thought of that one and I'll have a chat with others at the club about using this.

And yes, I'm the same on ignoring events that aren't local enough. Winter league is good for us, as the races are mostly 30-45 mins away from Ambleside, but BOFRA events generally too far so I'm also selective regarding which events to promote to our parents. After all, it is the parents that do the work of getting kids to events, so I think it matters a lot that they don't feel overloaded or pressured to do too much 'ferrying'. I can imagine that once parents drop out of the system because the weekend travelling all gets too much for them, then the club will suffer dramatically.

Eleanor - you've really hit on something here.

I've coached now for 6 years. My main aim has been to get as many of my then U13s and U15s through to the senior ranks. Hopefully helping them enjoy the sport that they keep that desire to stay in it.
I've done that on the basis that of looking after the squad, creating a good environment will allow those with real talent to thrive and progress.

But after the 6 years, I am starting to realise something.

A junior making it through to seniors is reliant on many factors, but the main two that I find are :-

1. The athlete themselves. Do they really have that desire to do it? When they are 10 - 12 they can often get by off one session a week and a bit of racing as they are so active it carries them through. But as they get to 14/15 they have to be training more seriously or they fall behind, lose heart and eventually pack in.

2. The parents. As you hint at, are they prepared to drive their child 90 minutes to a race that the club is going to, or is deemed to be a race they should do, or the athlete themselves has a desire to do that race.

Point 2 is very important. I've quite a few promising kids, who I think would have the will, but parental ability or will to support is lacking and I fear they will not last or ever get to their full potential.
They can't or won't even get them to a cross country race 10 - 20 minutes from home.

Don't be frightened of a few "awaydays". It broadens the athletes experience and will give you some idea of which parents are in it for the long term.

[Eleanor]

Don't be frightened of a few "awaydays". It broadens the athletes experience and will give you some idea of which parents are in it for the long term.

Give me chance, only just got started!!!

Seriously though - I decided, if we get parents involved now (driving their kids to Winter League and everyone having a good experience) then the club has a better chance of surviving through this first year (by which time we'll know better what we are doing). Then I can build on extra stuff maybe without parents next year. I had good advice from Ken, one of our seniors, on this. He said NOT to do too much straight away in terms of taking kids in a minibus etc. At first glance it seemed the right thing to do, helping out the parents, but actually it would mean we built our club without that foundation of parental engagement. If they come to events and support their kids, feel the sense of excitement around the team, then they also catch the bug and we are less likely to lose either the Junior OR the parent supporter.

This was specially important as most of our parents are not actually runners themselves. We've had a baby boom the past few years in terms of club seniors dropping their sprogs, so in a few years, assuming these babies become children who want to go running, this should benefit our Juniors. So I take your point, that there's nothing wrong in a few away days but not until we have the basic family support in place. One of my weaknesses is always wanting to do too much too soon, so in this case I've taken the advice. Does that make sense?

[multi coloured]

WP, EL and the rest of you are all right, points systems, playing child minder for a day or all acting ass the next best coach in fell running. There is no right way to involving the kids and as you can see by this forum no one does it the same as the next fella, what ever the sport where kids are involved in, what ever the country and what ever the level, coaching juniors will always be differnet which is why the rules don't help in ths instance.

Look back in the late 90's the Dutch claimed Ajax way of coaching football was the only way, now look at Ajax, 2010 to date its all Barca, i'm too young to know this for sure but looking at distance running when Cram, Ovette and Coe i imagin the Ebglish way was the only way, yet now there is no other way but to be a Kenyan.

Coaching kids should be a 'Breeze' !!!!

TOO MUCH INTERFERENCE :thunbdown: