Coronavirus

[Oracle]

Remember that you workers don't negotiate their own pensions.

They only work to the schemes currently set up.

I'm in a superannuation not by choice. It was mandatory when I took the job.

I’m attacking unfunded early retirement. Granting of early retirement to teachers is not automatic but averages show it is nearly always accepted. It shouldn’t be till normal age. We cannot afford it. Doctors retiree early they say because they have maxed out pension. You’ve seen the numbers, we cannot afford it. Nurses retire early then come back as contractors, we end up paying twice. It is still a choice to retire. Police and firefighters retire unjustifiably early.
MPs are worst at screwing , second only to euro MPs.

Every time any government tries to make them affordable ( they are not at current savings rates) the unions and members kick up a stink preventing change. They don’t have to. It’s a choice to demand £3 so the rest of us payers only get 1

You’ve seen the numbers above stagger. It means most early retirees get more out than they ever pay tax, making them nett parasites.
Not acceptable. It’s unfair the entire public sector or most, don’t pay nett tax because of screwing pensions so well.

The Pension agreements rely on savings ( bond) rates and death ages that no longer exist,

In post covid world in which interest rates of minus 2 !! are postulated to screw pension savers even more, the whole public sector pensions needs scrapping and replacing, with those earned. All must take a hit.

That means as your savings are effectively earning guaranteed 10 percent or more to allow for inflation proofing.
Mine are earning minus 2 to pay for yours.
I am forced into equities which the government have trashed by asking companies to pay for COVID It cannot go on.
The government is stealing from private sector to give to public.

Covid will destroy private sector pensions.

[Dave_Mole]

On the 75th anniversary of the NHS, he calls nurses parasites.

I think that says it all, really. Doesn't it?

[Oracle]

On the 75th anniversary of the NHS, he calls nurses parasites.

I think that says it all, really. Doesn't it?

It is your tax if you pay any, paying for those who take a pension and nhs contractor rates at the same time.

It is the ones who take the piss that are the problem. Retiring at 59 on that pension already
cost the exchequer more than they ever pay in tax.
Why should they be allowed to be 100 percent tax avoiders?

I don’t do cult NHS. They do a job they are well paid to do, sometimes well, too often badly, frequently negligently, always expensively.

[Fellbeast]

I’m attacking unfunded early retirement..... (and a lot of added huff and puff)

You’re talking about civil service, the nhs and the teachers pensions schemes, all of which are unfunded and paid straight out of the exchequer. But you’re missing the point as to why they’re unfunded. They’re unfunded because the government want it that way otherwise they would have to actually pay contributions and fund the schemes which, from a treasury point of view, means paying out earlier and building up funds and reserves to pay the pensions. The government prefers them to be unfunded duh brain

All pension schemes offer early retirement, usually for a reduced pension to reflect that they’ll be paying for a bit longer. That’s whether it’s private or public. The government should offer good pension schemes to its staff so as to set the bar for private businesses and it would be grossly unfair if they didn’t offer early retirement for public servants when everyone else can have the option to retire early

Remember as employees members of the nhs pay large personal contributions to their pensions and the employers cost is deemed part of their earnings, albeit in their case the employers cost is actually deferred to retirement

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make but what you’ve said so far is utter bollocks

[Oracle]

Facts. Check the numbers. I presented them.
No mystery in the point I make,

The scheme way over pay in the context of current bond rates and age expectation,
Combined with that the deduction for retiring early ( if any, teachers often fudge it) is far too small for actuarial risk.

The problem is almost all teachers nurses and doctors and ALL firemen and police retire early.
The ACTUAL cost of retiring early costs more than the tax they pay in a life time.
The multiplier used by Hmrc for fund value is also a fiddle. I can’t put enough in yo buy a doctors pension even if I hade the cash. Not even close.

The only reason MPs don’t do anything is they screw the system more.

There is a trillion overhang in these schemes.
300 million in the mp scheme alone.

I dislike the ponzi, but I wish they had invested it if only to prove the numbers I quote , the system. must be abolished. It isn’t fit for purpose

All pensions must be based on what you save and market return. So all are affected by economic shocks.

The private sector pensions are devastated. They have a triple whammy.

The rules need changing we cannot pay it. Not post covid.

You’re talking about civil service, the nhs and the teachers pensions schemes, all of which are unfunded and paid straight out of the exchequer. But you’re missing the point as to why they’re unfunded. They’re unfunded because the government want it that way otherwise they would have to actually pay contributions and fund the schemes which, from a treasury point of view, means paying out earlier and building up funds and reserves to pay the pensions. The government prefers them to be unfunded duh brain

All pension schemes offer early retirement, usually for a reduced pension to reflect that they’ll be paying for a bit longer. That’s whether it’s private or public. The government should offer good pension schemes to its staff so as to set the bar for private businesses and it would be grossly unfair if they didn’t offer early retirement for public servants when everyone else can have the option to retire early

Remember as employees members of the nhs pay large personal contributions to their pensions and the employers cost is deemed part of their earnings, albeit in their case the employers cost is actually deferred to retirement

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make but what you’ve said so far is utter bollocks

[Dave_Mole]

On the 75th anniversary of the NHS he called nurses parasites.

[MattPo]

On the 75th anniversary of the NHS he called nurses parasites.

And stated that most nurses and teaches earned £40,000. I wish I Fu*cking had. I get a pension of £700/month - greedy arn't I.

[Fellbeast]

Oracle tax paid doesn’t pay for occupational pensions. Contributions do. The government doesn’t pay any though so have to pay the cost, over and above employee contributions, as the pensions are paid. They then get some tax back of the pension which is paid paye

[Graham Breeze]

You’re talking about civil service, the nhs and the teachers pensions schemes, all of which are unfunded and paid straight out of the exchequer. But you’re missing the point as to why they’re unfunded. They’re unfunded because the government want it that way otherwise they would have to actually pay contributions and fund the schemes which, from a treasury point of view, means paying out earlier and building up funds and reserves to pay the pensions. The government prefers them to be unfunded duh brain

All pension schemes offer early retirement, usually for a reduced pension to reflect that they’ll be paying for a bit longer. That’s whether it’s private or public. The government should offer good pension schemes to its staff so as to set the bar for private businesses and it would be grossly unfair if they didn’t offer early retirement for public servants when everyone else can have the option to retire early

Remember as employees members of the nhs pay large personal contributions to their pensions and the employers cost is deemed part of their earnings, albeit in their case the employers cost is actually deferred to retirement

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make but what you’ve said so far is utter bollocks

I am reluctant to express support lest anyone think I am you (no doubt you have the same fear) but my wife was a teacher, many of my family work for the NHS and I retired from a plc aged 50: and I think you actually know what you are talking about, which is quite refreshing really.

[Dave_Mole]

Thanks MattPo. Didn't know you are EX-NHS. Thank you.

Unlike some, I'm glad my taxes fund the NHS, and it makes me most unhappy that staff retire early for mental health and other health issues. A decent pension was always seen as a reward for public service and reflecting that commitment.

It seems some people fail to understand this. But then psychopaths wouldn't.