Originally Posted by Doonhamer
NO! I'll be lynched.
NO! I'll be lynched.
I didn't think this thread was about Vinokourov, Hamilton etc. because no one here is saying they aren't drug cheats who deserve to be caught. I thought your accusations were about people such as Gebreselassie, Freeman, Holmes, Kipketer, Aouita, Michael Johnson, Martin Lel, Radcliffe, El Guerrouj etc.
I am particularly interested in your interest with Said Aouita, about whom, oddly enough, there are pretty good drug suspicions. Why do you use him as a benchmark for distance running achievement? - Only asking.
Come on now - If you kidknapped Christopher Leigh and put him in a library for 2 weeks, and increased his IQ by 20% as a result, would that make him more intelligent? Or would he just know more? Could he use this knowledge to his advantage? But can you just increase IQ like that?
'That's what you get when you suffer - you get results'
He was my hero in the late 80s.He took over from Coe and Ovett, and was very gutsy.That doesn't make me lose my objectivity though.
I was informed by a club colleague that some Australian athletes had made certain allegations against Aouita.If these rumours are true, then I'm disappointed, although not surprised.
If he knew that athletes had to take drugs to be on a level playing field then he should have resigned, rather than encouraging it in the face of reality.
As to his days as an athlete, I don't think he drugged himself.My reasons for thinking this are his performances on the whole.He ran many world records, but he had to push himself extra hard to achieve these.The rest of the time he concerned himself with winning.
I remember reading an athletics article about him in the early nineties.It said he didn't run further than 15km in training.He seemed to have adopted Coe's weight training practices.
I use him as a benchmark because I believe he's one of the greatest runners the world has ever seen, and also because it took his speed and stamina to break world records that had lasted years.
Today there are athletes a lot slower(in terms of basic speed) running a lot faster than he did, and making it look like a training run.
The real reason though is: to run 1 second a lap faster than he did or even 2secs a lap requires a huge increase in oxygen uptake, that in my opinion cannot be achieved through normal training practices.
I honestly believe today's athletes are no better than past ones.No better even than athletes 4 decades ago, and I apply that to all endurance sports.
Last edited by CL; 16-04-2008 at 10:28 PM.
big difference between knowing more and intelligence
Zero + 20% is still Zero
Sorry couldn't resist
Fellhell you're not advocating people kidknap me now are you?Come on now - If you kidknapped Christopher Leigh and put him in a library for 2 weeks, and increased his IQ by 20% as a result, would that make him more intelligent? Or would he just know more? Could he use this knowledge to his advantage? But can you just increase IQ like that?
Last edited by CL; 16-04-2008 at 10:41 PM.
Good point Saz.Intelligence is the ability to reason, whereas knowledge involves memory.Saying that intelligence cannot exist without memory.
There are plenty of people who can remember all sorts of facts and figures, but cannot reason.
CL, the reason I think your argument is circular is because you only rely on the fact that runners are fast therefore that they take drugs. They take drugs therefore they are fast.
Aouita may have been clean but he was a lesser runner than Rono.
Coe's record over 800 metres stood for 20 odd years befor Kipketer beat it by fractions.
To be honest I don't really care because I myself have lost a fair bit of interest in mainstream athletics due to drug issues - I refuse to argue the point as to whether I am more dangerously naive than you are. What I do take issue with is you trashing everything on here with your agenda.
My opinion is that we are rubbish as a nation because we buy into a victim mentality.
It is a fellrunning forum. As far as I know Jebbie doesn't buy into the mediocrity - but you trashed my suggestion that people should train that way, suggesting that people would die from it!
Those of us who never ran as hard as we could will never know that we just weren't very good at it.
According to this,
http://www.sauktri.org/reports/report30.php
Radcliffe has a V02 Max "In the region of" 80.
Other V02 max info shows,
Bjorn Daehlie Cross country skier 90.0
Miguel Indurain Cyclist (winner of Tour de France) 88.0
John Ngugi 5 times world cross country champ 85.0
Dave Bedford 10km World Record holder 85.0
Steve Prefontaine 1 mile in 3:54.6 84.4
Lance Armstrong Cyclist (winner of Tour de France) 84.0
Joan Benoit Marathon runner (2:24:52) 78.6
Bill Rodgers Marathon runner (2:09:27) 78.5
Sebastian Coe Middle distance (1 mile WR) 77.0
Grete Waitz Marathon runner (WR 1980) 73.0
Frank Shorter Marathon runner 71.0
Derek Clayton Marathon runner (WR 1969) 69.7
So, if V02 max is the only critera, why can Seb Coe run 800 in 1:41, and Radcliffe only 2:05?
Nikalas increased his V02 max from 49 to 66. From here on I'd suggest the law of dimminshing returns applies? I'd also speculate that he didn't push himself 100% in the first V02 max test.
Application is the key to knowledge and intelligence.
All I can state with certainty is that Radcliffe has improved dramatically since I last took her on a training run...
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