And don’t ask too many questions of those who wish to bank there.Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
And don’t ask too many questions of those who wish to bank there.
Don't roll with a pig in poo. You get covered in poo and the pig likes it.
Thank you WP. Helpful.
Marco, I really don't think it's helpful throwing around accusations such as discriminatory/racist, which unfortunately are terms that have rather lost their potency recently as they have been applied far too indiscriminately. I realise younger people tend to accuse rapidly things they strongly don't agree with as 'Nazi' or 'Hitler', but we're surely more sophisticated than that. If you don't agree with something fine, but such emotive language doesn't help.
I struggled to understand your point by point disagreement with the manifesto, which seemed to range from strongly eschewing all suggestions of societal/cultural agreed authority, and degrees of conformity, but then you alluding to the Bible on one point which surely itself is rather (in some readings) a very authoritative text (not that I believe that is necessarily a 'bad thing').
Your use of the Welsh speaking population of Wales as an example, is rather lost me, but perhaps indicates some mutual misunderstanding that has caused you to take offences when none is being given?
We're talking about shared values, which evolve biologically, over time, in all cultures - where there are new communities joining. For example, we (currently) have monogamy in marriage in this country, we don't see polygamy as lawful. Many cultures take different views, but while the law prohibits this (authority exercised) then most people in Britain comply. Same with age of marriage, same with FGM, etc. All authoritatively upheld in the UK, where the Law and the Police are the authority (see relevant point in the manifesto you disagreed with), not minority community leaders, or individuals themselves. None of that is racist/discriminatory? It's what the majority of people in the country believe to be right, at the moment. It may change - just like same-sex marriages are now legal (which of course some minority groups in the UK are appalled by - but that's not racist or discriminatory either to allow such marriages).
No one is claiming that having different languages spoken in a community is a problematic issue (far from it - it's an enrichment), but where a minority language is your only language, and if this actually reinforces isolation for some parts of the wider countries community, into ghettos, or silos of culture, rather than allowing an active participation by ALL groups to contribute to a country's culture, that can surely be problematic and lead to friction. That is, if you can't actively take part in a community because you can't effectively communicate, it must be very difficult to feel welcomed and aligned with, and contribute to, that wider community. Coming to live permanently in a new country, it is a commonly held courtesy to attempt to learn that country's primary language(s). Granted, the stereotype is that some Brits aren't necessarily very good at that when living abroad - but that's another issue.
Am Yisrael Chai
Marco, I really don't think it's helpful throwing around accusations such as discriminatory/racist, which unfortunately are terms that have rather lost their potency recently as they have been applied far too indiscriminately. I realise younger people tend to accuse rapidly things they strongly don't agree with as 'Nazi' or 'Hitler', but we're surely more sophisticated than that. If you don't agree with something fine, but such emotive language doesn't help.
I struggled to understand your point by point disagreement with the manifesto, which seemed to range from strongly eschewing all suggestions of societal/cultural agreed authority, and degrees of conformity, but then you alluding to the Bible on one point which surely itself is rather (in some readings) a very authoritative text (not that I believe that is necessarily a 'bad thing').
Your use of the Welsh speaking population of Wales as an example, is rather lost on me, but perhaps indicates some mutual misunderstanding that has caused you to take offences when none is being given?
We're talking about shared values, which evolve biologically, over time, in all cultures - where there are new communities joining. For example, we (currently) have monogamy in marriage in this country, we don't see polygamy as lawful. Many cultures take different views, but while the law prohibits this (authority exercised) then most people in Britain comply. Same with age of marriage, same with FGM, etc. All authoritatively upheld in the UK, where the Law and the Police are the authority (see relevant point in the manifesto you disagreed with), not minority community leaders, or individuals themselves. None of that is racist/discriminatory? It's what the majority of people in the country believe to be right, at the moment. It may change - just like same-sex marriages are now legal (which of course some minority groups in the UK are appalled by - but that's not racist or discriminatory either to allow such marriages).
No one is claiming that having different languages spoken in a community is a problematic issue (far from it - it's an enrichment), but where a minority language is your only language, and if this actually reinforces isolation for some parts of the wider countries community, into ghettos, or silos of culture, rather than allowing an active participation by ALL groups to contribute to a country's culture, that can surely be problematic and lead to friction. That is, if you can't actively take part in a community because you can't effectively communicate, it must be very difficult to feel welcomed and aligned with, and contribute to, that wider community. Coming to live permanently in a new country, it is a commonly held courtesy to attempt to learn that country's primary language(s). Granted, the stereotype is that some Brits aren't necessarily very good at that when living abroad - but that's another issue.
Am Yisrael Chai
From the person who gave us this yesterday. If it's ok for you to use words like racism, why can't I?
No one is saying you can't use the term racism. That's a clear non-sequitur. The point is to use the term sparingly and in the appropriate context or it loses its value.
If you can't appreciate the difference between Mosley's black shirts anti-semitism and how this is racism, and a document/manifesto that makes explicitly no reference to race, then I'm at a loss to explain further.
This may help, but if even that doesn't, I think we'll have to agree to disagree
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ario-balotelli
Am Yisrael Chai
An awful lot of Ukrainians, and even more Chinese from Hong Kong have come recently.
I'd give the example of "genocide" used to describe the Israeli approach to Gaza. A genocide so successful that the population growth is about 30% over the last decade.
Here's my main issue with the protests.
If those protesters had taken to the streets post October 7th calling for the release of the Hamas held hostages and a ceasefire, and held peaceful vigils for example, then they would have my sympathy and support.
One group attacked the other, butchered civilians, some were Thai agricultural workers. They took around 300 hostages, women and children.
So when people talk about International Law, Hamas trampled all over it.
They are rubbing our nose in the sand - challenging us and using our morals and ethics as a weakness.
The celebrations on hearing the news over there and over here, and then the anti-west sentiment sewn in to the raucous chants and inflammatory banners at all protests appears vile, nasty, evil.
The Police (the subject of this thread) have ample reasons to deal with this and make many more arrests than they have.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
Having mis-used the word pogrom a few days ago I don't think you're in any position to preach about words losing their value
Thanks for the reply Noel. It's not my signature condemning the evil atrocities at the pogrom of October 7th. It was happening well before I changed it following those shocking events. I can't believe there are too many neo- Nazis programming the algorithm of the FRA forum! But hey, we live in crazy times with the world turned on its head!
Oh dear. Even if you were correct in your assertion above (which I don't agree with), that's still yet another logical fallacy. 'value' to 'misuse'? Here's a fallacy example: 'I forgot to buy milk this morning, so clearly I'm not fit to drive my car'.
But let's try one last time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#Usage
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...aza-hamas-jews
There's a saying in Equestrian Coaching: 'You can take a rider to knowledge, but you can't make them think'.
End of this conversation for me.
Am Yisrael Chai
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote