fields and forum

[IainR]

Think you should read that again!

Then re-type a meaningful reply.

here's a tip, read, read again, have a think, then type a reply, not just jump in 2 footed eh?

[Stolly]

So is a race that requires no navigation or route choice not a race then ?

Well all of my navigational errors and losing myself in bad weather horror stories have all happened when I've been out on my own . My navigational errors in races are all down to following other runners - but at least then I'm not alone

[david]

Think you should read that again!

Then re-type a meaningful reply.

here's a tip, read, read again, have a think, then type a reply, not just jump in 2 footed eh?

Well perhaps you should make your point a bit more clearly as I've read your post several times and still don't get it.

[IainR]

Exactly. You are far more dependant on your own navigational ability when out alone than in a race. It's why so many racers get lost when the clag comes down, look at the Rhinogs race this weekend.

A suprising number of fell racers have little understanding of a map or using a compass.

[IainR]

So why not ask for clarification then?

[daz h]

now now boys settle down
look im crap at navigation and compass work but and i will admit it , ive looked at the ratio of getting lost to not getting lost in races and im now on my 55th race and i genuinely have not got lost , yeah ive lost a minute here and there but never lost.
perhaps ive been lucky

[IainR]

Exactly Daz, in racing you can get away with not knowing how to navigate. Lets face it most fell races follow major handrails so are fairly easy macro-navving at worst. But many runners have little to no idea, never practice, get lost in a race, then get the map out when rushing, adrenalin pumping and are then in a tricky situation.

I think those who fell run on their own are used to judging how far to go, what is a reasonable length run for the time they have, and navigating their way around that route.

Anyway this is all off track as I said originally, it's just worth mentioning that fell running is more than just fell racing. And I think there will be many who fell run but not fell race.

[Mud]

im now on my 55th race and i genuinely have not got lost

Well everyone else finished it weeks ago, so are you sure you're not lost....?

[daz h]

i think iain has it spot on
its amazing how big a difference it is when you hit the lonely fell on your own
i did a run across bleaklow a few years back on my own and the weather was atrocious, i was genuine proper panicking, i was lost ,not just taken a wrong turn , okay had a map but i was out my depth and yet possibly only 30minutes from the nearest road.
i just dont get that feeling in races
a nice walker helped me find my way back off the fell that day and i think he must have thought jesus who is this clown out wandering on his own
but my point was i can understand why quite a lot of us dont bother learning to navigate if your just racing , ive never really not been in a situation where i wasnt near someone.
BUT and this is where i compensate, i recced borrowdale 3 times just to get some basic bearings and sense of the route, i would have never attempted that race wihout a recce, this is where the forum is very very handy for meets on these recces.
likewise at the edale skyline.
if i had not of recced that i wouldnt have completed it on race day
so for me recces are so much better.
thats why i think the forum is increasingly responsable for luring in runners to the fell races that prob wouldnt bother as they wouldbe to daunted b it all
i bet if you asked a lot of the recce runners they would say they never wold have done the actual race if the recce wasnt there before.
I think its easier to do a recce than just poll up with navigational experience, in fact i think its a lot better and safer.


oh and these keys on these dell laptops ar shite

[IainR]

I've only done a few fell races since back in the UK that I've not known the terrain well on. In almost all races in Snowdonia I know the lie of land well enough to not need a map or recce for the general line, but for things like the Peris we still recced the best lines. But I did enjoy those races I'd never seen before (Arenig fawr and Glen Clova), there's a lot of gambling to be done. In Glen Clova, as far away from Nant as any race really, there was a real possibility of getting VERY lost, so a map is essential, but you get up on top, caught up in the race and just tag onto someone who seems to know the way, and if you lose them then you are very lost, but its all about taking risks really, assessing the situation and deeming whats a worthwhile risk, I don't think I'd follow a lone guy if there was no one else out there, but in Glen Clova I kept seeing others taking a similarish line so went with this guy. I could have navved myself across the moor but would certainly have been a lot lot slower.

It'll be interesting to see how the running organisations approach navigation skills in the future. I've heard mutterings of navigation qualifications being required by runners to enter fell races which although I value navigation as a skill, I'd be totally opposed to formal rules as fell running should be as pure and unregulated as possible IMO. But the best way to ward off any such moves is to try to reduce the number of runners getting lost by encouraging good navigation practice; fell running associations holding navigation courses etc, and local runners going out on recces and sharing a few (not all :-)) route tips. There's also the need for runners to understand that navigaion is a skill which needs constantly working on, runners spend hours taking 10 seconds off the minute/mile pace, but little time on navigation which can have just as big an impact on your placing.

Incidentally we, Snowdonia Running Guides, are holding a one day navigation course for the WFRA next month, just a basic introduction to navigation for runners, £15 for WFRA members and £20 for non-members.