Ukip

I wouldn't quite say unbelievable, but the results in the EU election are perhaps even more pronounced than most commentators expected.
I don't see this as a UKIP endorsement here in the UK - I actually see it more as a "none of the above" vote.
Only 56% of the vote has gone for UK wide mainstream parties. The Greens are up at 8% so it's not just UKIP that have attracted support.

I'm not sure the 3 big parties get it. They are all discredited. Their people are all talking about learning lessons, listening.... but that's just the same old, same old...

They seem to think that this cannot be replicated come a general election, but I'm not so sure. I think the public has seen what power it can wield and may well use it in 12 months time.
It could be interesting.

Meanwhile, across Europe the extremes on both sides seem to have done well. Is it the end for the EU as we know it?

There's been a vote going on? Really?? I had no idea...

Joking apart, there hasn't been a single piece of election leafleting or canvasing around here. If politicians - on all sides, want us to vote for them, perhaps they should actually try engaging with us.

I think that online voting should be introduced. With a log in similaar to when i do my tax return.
Looking at results only a third of people actually voted at all.
I personally know folk that didnt vote because of bad weather.
Surely in this email age secure online voting makes sence and could be less easy to fraud. The secret ballet might play a part byt I'm sure its something to be worked out.

I cant believe how much hate there has been towards ukip voters. In my opinion many of my friends have acted in shameful and contradictory ways towards the ukip voters, fuelling a fire of hate.

Not a great example.

I dont support ukip but I'm more discusted with the comments of non ukip voters than those for the party.
Mick

I never thought the day would come but me, a life-long Genetic Socialist - my grandmother was involved with the unions before the war, it skipped a generation with my mum, who used to admire Jean Rook, a writer for the Express when it was a broadsheet but has burned in me for as long as I have been conscious, I have no interest in politics. We had a load of leaflets through our door, but I barely registered who'd sent them. I'm much more interested in nature, philosphy and politics now. Mum told a great story about a woman complaining at the bakers the day after a general election that the price of bread was still the same - does it really make any difference who's in charge? Really? It's like who's won the Premier League if you don't support a club in the competion

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

does it really make any difference who's in charge? Really? It's like who's won the Premier League if you don't support a club in the competion

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Not really. The Premier League doesn't

• take 41% of your income and often squander it on your behalf
• go to war unjustly in foreign lands
• fix the laws of the land which we are all bound by
• blight our landscape with the increasingly discredited windfarms

http://i59.tinypic.com/dxz1w4.png

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Not really. The Premier League doesn't

• take 41% of your income and often squander it on your behalf
• go to war unjustly in foreign lands
• fix the laws of the land which we are all bound by
• blight our landscape with the increasingly discredited windfarms

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My point is you get these whoever's in charge

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

http://i59.tinypic.com/dxz1w4.png

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Not like you Danbert to go proclaiming the virtue of the Reds . . . tick, tock

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Not like you Danbert to go proclaiming the virtue of the Reds . . . tick, tock

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I've lost a lot of interest in politics myself Tupster but when push comes to shove i'll always have a pop at the likes of UKIP. How anybody can vote for a party that occupies the extreme-right authoritarian territory you would expect from "Thatcherism on steroids" is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

I've lost a lot of interest in politics myself Tupster but when push comes to shove i'll always have a pop at the likes of UKIP. How anybody can vote for a party that occupies the extreme-right authoritarian territory you would expect from "Thatcherism on steroids" is beyond me.

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Good point

According to that graph, Scotland is more UKIP than the North of England. Well, Manchester at least.

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

http://i59.tinypic.com/dxz1w4.png

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That graph is nothing to be proud of! Fortunately I live in the sensible enclave of Manchester ;-)

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Originally Posted by TheHeathens

That graph is nothing to be proud of! Fortunately I live in the sensible enclave of Manchester ;-)

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I'd have some sympathy with his position if he wasn't flying the flag for labour who've left the country in tatters on both occasions they've been in charge in my living memory.
Turkey's like Danbert deserve what they vote for.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I'd have some sympathy with his position if he wasn't flying the flag for labour who've left the country in tatters on both occasions they've been in charge in my living memory.
Turkey's like Danbert deserve what they vote for.

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Bloody hell Witton. Is it really that easy these days to swindle votes off the ignorant, bovine populous like yourself?

No need for a manifesto, no need for sensible campaign promises, just come out and shout a load of tubthumping old balls about Johnny foreigner trying to steal all your money and make your bananas straight and you'll vote for it.:(

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

Bloody hell Witton. Is it really that easy these days to swindle votes off the ignorant, bovine populous like yourself?

No need for a manifesto, no need for sensible campaign promises, just come out and shout a load of tubthumping old balls about Johnny foreigner trying to steal all your money and make your bananas straight and you'll vote for it.:(

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Sensible campaign policies are not what I would associate with Labour either!

Too right Heathens.
Danbert - I value my vote. On this occasion, for the first time in 31 years of voting I have used my vote as a sort of protest vote I suppose.
I would like us to withdraw from the EU which if you have been a good little socialist over the last 40 years you would have swung several ways along with Wilson, Foot, Kinnock, Blair and Brown.
I haven't. I have never liked it as it's just an extension of the political class that generally provides jobs for the boys - the Kinnocks being another prime example - staunchly against until they all got their
snouts in the trough.
How am I supposed to vote - they all offer the same. Red Ed and Eton Dave have hardly a rizzla between them? They both fighting over that same fence to sit on.

I don't believe that UKIP are any more racist, sexist or homophobic than the other parties who all have issues if you dig around. What I do believe is that UKIP has been exposed to far more scrutiny than has been warranted and almost always the line of questioning is about these issues.
I've never yet heard any interviewer ask them about their policy on renewables, NHS, Taxation... all the time it's the same old questions.

What I also believe is that many of the public from all backgrounds are fed up with being told what they must think and what opinions are good and what are crank.
Talk about immigration and your dubbed a racist - that's the way the political elite work to try and stifle debate.

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Originally Posted by Danbert Nocurry

I've lost a lot of interest in politics myself Tupster but when push comes to shove i'll always have a pop at the likes of UKIP. How anybody can vote for a party that occupies the extreme-right authoritarian territory you would expect from "Thatcherism on steroids" is beyond me.

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I voted for them, there's no other way of getting immigration under control. In 50yrs time there'll be nothing for anyone in this country with immigration at the current rate. We don't have the land nor the infrastructure to support it, the only way is out and to take our chances with the economic situation that will result.

A massive spending program to put a framework in place for the sharp increase in population would offset the strain on resources such as the NHS and housing, but with the threat of progressively severe financial crashes in the future it won't happen. None of the main 3 are gutsy enough to deal with what lies ahead, it would be a PR disaster for them.

I'd actually totally understand if some sort of revolution led to the UK becoming an 'extreme right authoritarian' country; it might be the only thing that will save the place from the results of inaction.

I see we've reverted in a couple of pages to the usual hackneyed load of toss. I won't be voting for Nigel. Who cares what he thinks about the NHS? We know he's an odious man from the stuff we know that he thinks already

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've never yet heard any interviewer ask them about their policy on renewables, NHS, Taxation..

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that's probably because they don't have any! They scrapped their manifesto and are "policy" making on the hoof. Their statement on renewables suggests that they don't believe in climate change and that nuclear is the best option (to rid us of "foreign" oil and gas: seen any uranium mines in the UK?)...As for the rest of it: another cult of personality.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I voted for them, there's no other way of getting immigration under control. In 50yrs time there'll be nothing for anyone in this country with immigration at the current rate. We don't have the land nor the infrastructure to support it, the only way is out and to take our chances with the economic situation that will result.

A massive spending program to put a framework in place for the sharp increase in population would offset the strain on resources such as the NHS and housing, but with the threat of progressively severe financial crashes in the future it won't happen. None of the main 3 are gutsy enough to deal with what lies ahead, it would be a PR disaster for them.

I'd actually totally understand if some sort of revolution led to the UK becoming an 'extreme right authoritarian' country; it might be the only thing that will save the place from the results of inaction.

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Terrifying..

This is just fear inducing nonsense.. the immigrant strain on the NHS.. how about those pesky immigrants who actually keep it running..

It is totally overblown how much support UKIP got, you are talking about 1 in 15 of the total population, so whats that 1 in 10 of the voting population...

Turn out was as usual low so its those that want change who vote, voter apathy is high as usual.

They may not be a racist homophobic party but they attract racist homophobic voters and members hence why I am quite confident they will continually shoot themselves in the foot.. I see Farage has said he will bow out of politics once the UK is out of the EU, which won't happen anyway, but presumably that's because he'd then have **** all clew on what to do next and the country would be screwed...

It won't happen though, industry/business will pressure its workforce and make them realise the only option is staying in the EU and pushing for reform... its like Scottish Independence, as it gets closer companies will pressure towards the NO vote as issues such as the currency, lack of LoLR will be too much of a risk...

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Meanwhile, across Europe the extremes on both sides seem to have done well. Is it the end for the EU as we know it?

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You do realise on the whole europe voted in support of pro EU parties?

I think the real strain on the NHS is due to unhealthy lifestyles.
I also think that 'the country in tatters' cannot be blamed on a political party, but on ourselves and our actions as a collective.
I think there is more money being filtered out of Britain through corporate tax dodging than immigration issues. Billions upon billions that should be circling in the system.
That's some of what I think anyway. I like to take responsibility for my actions and be the best person I can be for myself, my family and the place I live.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Terrifying..

This is just fear inducing nonsense.. the immigrant strain on the NHS.. how about those pesky immigrants who actually keep it running..

It is totally overblown how much support UKIP got, you are talking about 1 in 15 of the total population, so whats that 1 in 10 of the voting population...

Turn out was as usual low so its those that want change who vote, voter apathy is high as usual.

They may not be a racist homophobic party but they attract racist homophobic voters and members hence why I am quite confident they will continually shoot themselves in the foot.. I see Farage has said he will bow out of politics once the UK is out of the EU, which won't happen anyway, but presumably that's because he'd then have **** all clew on what to do next and the country would be screwed...

It won't happen though, industry/business will pressure its workforce and make them realise the only option is staying in the EU and pushing for reform... its like Scottish Independence, as it gets closer companies will pressure towards the NO vote as issues such as the currency, lack of LoLR will be too much of a risk...

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I didn't vote UKIP because they're a one man band but the difference between Scotland and the UK is mainly to do with giving up the pound.

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Originally Posted by IainR

Terrifying..

This is just fear inducing nonsense.. the immigrant strain on the NHS.. how about those pesky immigrants who actually keep it running..

It is totally overblown how much support UKIP got, you are talking about 1 in 15 of the total population, so whats that 1 in 10 of the voting population...

Turn out was as usual low so its those that want change who vote, voter apathy is high as usual.

They may not be a racist homophobic party but they attract racist homophobic voters and members hence why I am quite confident they will continually shoot themselves in the foot.. I see Farage has said he will bow out of politics once the UK is out of the EU, which won't happen anyway, but presumably that's because he'd then have **** all clew on what to do next and the country would be screwed...

It won't happen though, industry/business will pressure its workforce and make them realise the only option is staying in the EU and pushing for reform... its like Scottish Independence, as it gets closer companies will pressure towards the NO vote as issues such as the currency, lack of LoLR will be too much of a risk...

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Brilliant post Iain,

I'm ashamed to admit that a UKIP clown (Roger Helmer)has just been re-elected as MEP in my region and will contest the Newark parliamentary by-election next week in abid to become UKIP's first MP, now that Nigel Farrage has lost interest in using the region as a political stepping stone.

Helmer publicly claimed that there is nothing wrong with disliking people because they are gay.

I find it difficult to believe that so many people are duped by Farrage et al, whose entire raison d'etre is to mess up the UK then disappear, and are prepared to put their faith in this type of pillock.

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Originally Posted by IainR

...the immigrant strain on the NHS.. how about those pesky immigrants who actually keep it running...

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What about them? Are you suggesting the positions had to be given to immigrants through lack of UK candidates? To be clear i'm not in favour of UK staff being given unfair advantages, just proposing a hypothetical situation where immigrant applicants never applied.

Just on your point regarding fear inducing nonsense, do you believe immigration poses none of the risks i have suggested?

Stewert Lee has a nice take on 'the UKIPs'.

Short version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=HJx0L4yYsDw

And a longer version which gets a bit surreal to make the point. He also drops the C-bomb if you're easily offended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4fQDAyl4GU

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Originally Posted by fellgazelle

Brilliant post Iain,

I'm ashamed to admit that a UKIP clown (Roger Helmer)has just been re-elected as MEP in my region

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Shouldn't that read 'democratically re-elected'

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

What about them? Are you suggesting the positions had to be given to immigrants through lack of UK candidates? To be clear i'm not in favour of UK staff being given unfair advantages, just proposing a hypothetical situation where immigrant applicants never applied.

Just on your point regarding fear inducing nonsense, do you believe immigration poses none of the risks i have suggested?

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For many NHS jobs the only applicants are immigrants. There is no doubt the NHS would be unable to function without them.

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Originally Posted by MickTor

I cant believe how much hate there has been towards ukip voters. In my opinion many of my friends have acted in shameful and contradictory ways towards the ukip voters, fuelling a fire of hate.

Not a great example.

I dont support ukip but I'm more disgusted with the comments of non ukip voters than those for the party.
Mick

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and the thread is developing along those lines.

Turnout is down, voting has become a choice between the same ie Hobsons choice.

UKIP is merely a chance to put one up the mainstream and quite a few people have taken the chance.

I'm actually more surprised that anyone can find a reason to vote for Tory, Labour or Libdem at the moment in a national election. It seems to me a no vote or a none of the above vote is a fair enough decision.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

a

UKIP is merely a chance to put one up the mainstream and quite a few people have taken the chance.

I'm actually more surprised that anyone can find a reason to vote for Tory, Labour or Libdem at the moment in a national election. It seems to me a no vote or a none of the above vote is a fair enough decision.

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Nicely put Richard.

I voted UKIP for the Europe elections
&
Libs in local because I know the lady and she is a member of a local running club.

Each to there own but I dare bet a lot of the vote knockers don't even vote.

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Originally Posted by MickTor

I think the real strain on the NHS is due to unhealthy lifestyles.
I also think that 'the country in tatters' cannot be blamed on a political party, but on ourselves and our actions as a collective.
I think there is more money being filtered out of Britain through corporate tax dodging than immigration issues. Billions upon billions that should be circling in the system.
That's some of what I think anyway. I like to take responsibility for my actions and be the best person I can be for myself, my family and the place I live.

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In a nutshell.

And so close to making the real point: UKIP is just yet another smokescreen to deflect people's anger away from the real issues. The name of the UKIP game is "let's pick on the immigrants and blame them" when, as you correctly state, the cost to Britain of corporate tax dodging is way in excess of the cost of immigration.

It's just the latest in a long line of such stories. UKIP given bad publicity by the media? Don't make me laugh. Promoted by the media to the mindless masses so that their anger is controlled and diverted.

Let's blame the immigrants not the tax dodgers, let's blame the benefit claimants not the rich bankers, let's fight a war on poverty not a war on pure greed, let's fill our papers with the latest reality TV show winner not the real issues. The establishment feeds us tripe and we lap it up. And, meanwhile, they get rich at our expense.....

MickTor, you are so right in your attitude - be the best you can for your family and for your environment and accept that's all you can do.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

What about them? Are you suggesting the positions had to be given to immigrants through lack of UK candidates? To be clear i'm not in favour of UK staff being given unfair advantages, just proposing a hypothetical situation where immigrant applicants never applied.

Just on your point regarding fear inducing nonsense, do you believe immigration poses none of the risks i have suggested?

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Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants do not prop up the NHS??

Check your history and your facts on immigrants in the NHS.. then post again...

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Originally Posted by Stagger

Nicely put Richard.

I voted UKIP for the Europe elections

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Me too Stags, welcome to the 'mindless masses' as Mr1470 calls us. To me the mindless masses are the 66% who couldn't be arsed to waddle the 200 yards to the nearest polling station

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Danbert - I value my vote. On this occasion, for the first time in 31 years of voting I have used my vote as a sort of protest vote I suppose.

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A protest vote? Come off it. Protest about the main 3 parties by voting for a Tory party on steroids? MORE of the same? How is that a protest vote? Oh yes.. that's how.. because the UKIP voters are ill informed MORONS. Older racist daily mail reading types.. and the younger ones whom if they sat next to you in the pub, you'd avoid eye contact, drink up and leave.

Ask a UKIP voter about their NHS policy, or holiday pay/maternity pay policy.. or income tax.. or education/air craft carriers.

Protest? My arse

Yep
Protest Danbert against whats on offer.
None of the above would have been better but not an option.

There is no substance to the UKIP party away from its europhobia. All those BNP voters have obviously deserted to UKIP as they probably think that is the only way they can get their anti-any immigrant views realised.

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Originally Posted by Alf

There is no substance to the UKIP party away from its europhobia. All those BNP voters have obviously deserted to UKIP as they probably think that is the only way they can get their anti-any immigrant views realised.

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The Scottish UKIP MPs response to name an area he disagreed with about the EU.. he couldn't name a single policy... said there were plenty though...

They just have no actual policy..

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Originally Posted by Stagger

Yep
Protest Danbert against whats on offer.
None of the above would have been better but not an option.

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Stagger be careful what you wish for I would say, if you need a protest vote, then go with the Greens, at least they stand for something positive, and have a whole raft of policies as opposed to UKIP

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Originally Posted by IainR

The Scottish UKIP MPs response to name an area he disagreed with about the EU.. he couldn't name a single policy... said there were plenty though...

They just have no actual policy..

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Correct Iain, UKIP have just reduced party politics to being all about immigration and Europe as they know they can manipulate idiots through fear.

There's nothing noble or savvy about them or the people who vote for them.

They're fishing in the same pond as the BNP before them, a pond full of bottom feeders.