Personal Locator Beacons

Last year I was riding long distance through Shropshire and had the misfortune to break my leg from a fall in the middle of a field. I was lucky and wasn't riding alone and had mobile reception and we could get emergency help, but there are many places where where this is not possible.

I discovered that there is a system of Personal Locator Beacons which are legal for Marine and Aviation but illegal for land use :mad: For a informative explanation of what these are please go to http://www.equineramblersuk.co.uk/pe...or-beacons.php

We have a petition that can be accessed from that page which we would be really grateful if you would sign. We just want the law changed so that we have the choice to legally own a PLB should you wish to.

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Originally Posted by jenniwren

Last year I was riding long distance through Shropshire and had the misfortune to break my leg from a fall in the middle of a field. I was lucky and wasn't riding alone and had mobile reception and we could get emergency help, but there are many places where where this is not possible.

I discovered that there is a system of Personal Locator Beacons which are legal for Marine and Aviation but illegal for land use :mad: For a informative explanation of what these are please go to http://www.equineramblersuk.co.uk/pe...or-beacons.php

We have a petition that can be accessed from that page which we would be really grateful if you would sign. We just want the law changed so that we have the choice to legally own a PLB should you wish to.

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You've got no chance in this forum we can argue for weeks about carrying a mobile ;)

Bill

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Originally Posted by jenniwren

Last year I was riding long distance through Shropshire and had the misfortune to break my leg from a fall in the middle of a field. I was lucky and wasn't riding alone and had mobile reception and we could get emergency help.

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Is it possible to set fire to your horse to attract attention?

I don't know why but Personal Locator Beacons paints an image of runners trotting around with traffic cones on their heads, each perhaps with a flashing beacon on top.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

I don't know why but Personal Locator Beacons paints an image of runners trotting around with traffic cones on their heads,

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A bit like this?

It seems Jenniwren is looking for some support from the hill running types as opposed to the mountain climbing types as I don't think she got many takers to sign the petition on the UK climbing forum. Some interesting points:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=272218

Blimey, she timed that well!

If you are on a horse and you are injured, then what you do is cut it open and climb inside and the body heat will keep you warm for hours, until someone comes and recues you, like on The Empire Strikes Back.

i reckon its a good idea , espec for those who aren't confident navigators and /or may be going into the depths of wilderness. as usual its personal pref , if light enough i would carry one

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Originally Posted by Grouse

If you are on a horse and you are injured, then what you do is cut it open and climb inside and the body heat will keep you warm for hours, until someone comes and recues you

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Originally Posted by Alf Tupper

i reckon its a good idea , espec for those who aren't confident navigators and /or may be going into the depths of wilderness. as usual its personal pref , if light enough i would carry one

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I completely agree with Alf. Carrying a small horse is the only way forward.

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Originally Posted by Grouse

If you are on a horse and you are injured, then what you do is cut it open and climb inside and the body heat will keep you warm for hours, until someone comes and recues you, like on The Empire Strikes Back.

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I sense a backlash from the Ponies.........................:eek:

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Originally Posted by Ady In Accy

I sense a backlash from the Ponies.........................:eek:

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Not at all....though i do worry that it may become compulsory to carry a lightsabre in races (it really is the best way to cut your horse open)

Jeez, what the hell next?!!!! So I need to carry a mobile phone, wear a traffic cone on my head, take a horse along and now a frigging lightsabre too. What the hell are the FRA playing at.... etc.

:D

It did occur to me recently that if it was possible and not too expensive (I know nout about technology) that it would sense to "tag" runners in long, dangerous races where exposure or weather could be an issue. Apart from being able to locate them instantly in case of an emergency, it would also make route choice viewing very interesting indeed. No doubt, I'll face a backlash for this thought (I thought ponies didn't believe in rules etc etc ).....but we're talking about safety being paramount in longer style events and races. It might also stop anonymous whingers on the forums about top runners cheating in championship races.

No doubt its either not possible, expensive or just against the thos of the sport but I thought I'd throw the thought into the den all the same. Bring on the lions.....

Surely it can't be that different from sport - ident!!!

Laughing here , nice one mud. Very deep and well .........muddy!!

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

it would also make route choice viewing very interesting indeed.

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Brilliant idea!

I can see it now: live commentary and a team of has-beens as pundits:

"that's a terrible route choice - he's really going to pay for that later"

"it really is a race of two halves"

"he's literally on fire today"

Prime-time, pay-per-view...this could be a winner!

D'you reckon Julia would host it? :D

Well obviously you're taking the TV punditry angle...which is a little extreme....but funny nonetheless

However, I think the saftey benefits should someone suffer a serious injury.....ie MRT's knowing instantly where to locate them --> would be a big benefit.

As for the route choice side of things.......again with technology (these garmin GPS devices) you can download routes taken onto a PDF map afterwards. Would make marvellous post race viewing...

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Jeez, what the hell next?!!!! So I need to carry a mobile phone, wear a traffic cone on my head, take a horse along and now a frigging lightsabre too.

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Knew we shouldn't have stayed affiliated to UKA

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

Well obviously you're taking the TV punditry angle...which is a little extreme....but funny nonetheless

However, I think the saftey benefits should someone suffer a serious injury.....ie MRT's knowing instantly where to locate them --> would be a big benefit.

As for the route choice side of things.......again with technology (these garmin GPS devices) you can download routes taken onto a PDF map afterwards. Would make marvellous post race viewing...

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i was only messing. I agree about the safety element - it would shorten casualty response times, but the costs of the technology would be prohibitive (and think of the arguments from the luddites on here - "It's like I've been ASBO tagged"!)

As for the routes thing, it would be interesting, but there are other ways to do this. I like those websites like mapmyrun, gmap pedometer and motionbased, but it would be great to do a fell running one where everyone can upload their runs into a shared viewer.

This could create a new sort of time trial race: create a list of checkpoints and a submission dates, then let everyone have a go whenever they want to and upload their garmin stats onto the viewer. We could then see everyone's routes and stats and the fastes wins.

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

It did occur to me recently that if it was possible and not too expensive (I know nout about technology) that it would sense to "tag" runners in long, dangerous races where exposure or weather could be an issue. Apart from being able to locate them instantly in case of an emergency, it would also make route choice viewing very interesting indeed. No doubt, I'll face a backlash for this thought (I thought ponies didn't believe in rules etc etc ).....but we're talking about safety being paramount in longer style events and races. It might also stop anonymous whingers on the forums about top runners cheating in championship races.

No doubt its either not possible, expensive or just against the thos of the sport but I thought I'd throw the thought into the den all the same. Bring on the lions.....

Surely it can't be that different from sport - ident!!!

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For the Mountain Trial this would be brilliant, you'd be able to see all your great route choices and compare them with others :D

From the safety angle the organiser wouldn't need a shorter course alternative for bad weather as they'd be able to track ervery one.

Imagine a race will NEVER be shortened or cancelled if you're tagged, bring it on :D

Bill

What if these tags were permanent? Like dog chips...Is there not a risk that our movements could then be tracked by more sinister elements of society such as wives, employers and next door neighbours?

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Originally Posted by FellMonster

As for the route choice side of things.......again with technology (these garmin GPS devices) you can download routes taken onto a PDF map afterwards. Would make marvellous post race viewing...

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Outrageous! I don't want folk viewing that secret line I've worked out through the hard graft of 30 years reccying the route day and night.

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Originally Posted by The Master

What if these tags were permanent? Like dog chips...Is there not a risk that our movements could then be tracked by more sinister elements of society such as wives, employers and next door neighbours?

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We'd need to have a switch built in to turn it off :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Updownupdown

Outrageous! I don't want folk viewing that secret line I've worked out through the hard graft of 30 years reccying the route day and night.

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But everyone will have their secret line so people won't know which is the best one :)

they had GPS tags in the World Adventure Race so everyone could know where the teams were during the 5 day non-stop race.

Route and location was then put onto google maps. So the technology is out there! Helped with the reporting and also saftey bearing in mind teams could be 50 miles apart.

Be great to see the different routes just like this years OMM route tracker. See where you went the long way round.

On subject in hand Personal Locator Beacons? I will need a 50 ltr rucksac to go running in the hills soon. Rather let someone know where I was going, take a mobile just in case and read a map. If dark flash my headtorch and blow my whistle frantically. If that doesn't work then never mind I have my tin foil blanket.

And hot water bottle.







(Or horse).

Horse wouldn't fit in the rucksack but the hot water bottle is a great idea! Maybe we should get that onto the kit list?

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Originally Posted by Baggins

For the Mountain Trial this would be brilliant, you'd be able to see all your great route choices and compare them with others :D

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RouteGadget is a nice web app for entering and comparing routes. It's taken off big time within orienteering during the last year.

As an example here are the routes from Capricorn 2007 Day 1. You need to select a course, and one or more competitors with a star by their name then click on 'View routes'.

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Originally Posted by slang

RouteGadget is a nice web app for entering and comparing routes. It's taken off big time within orienteering during the last year.

As an example here are the routes from Capricorn 2007 Day 1. You need to select a course, and one or more competitors with a star by their name then click on 'View routes'.

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Thats great :D

Please use for the Mountain Trial this year:p

http://www.omm.routegadget.co.uk/

theres the OMM routes for you as well baggins.

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Originally Posted by AJF

http://www.omm.routegadget.co.uk/

theres the OMM routes for you as well baggins.

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You can run an animation of the routes as well :p

;) Well at least it got some discusson of sorts going, but I fear you (generally)have not visited http://www.equineramblersuk.co.uk/pe...or-beacons.php for more information to educate yourselves further.

:cool: There is no shame in being ignorant about it or learnng more. There are a lot out there that have no knowledge of PLB's. This campaign and petition is for ALL that go in remote areas, not just horse riders so don't waste your time digging comments at equestrians. There is a sector of equestrians who ride long distance in remote unpopulated areas too...some Land's End to John O'groats or coast to coast. Have a look at the Trail Stories on the site and the Gallery.

The PLB is about the size of a mobile phone which you can put in your bumbag or rucksack and just forget about it until you REALLY need it (hopefuly you won't). It is to be used as a last resort when your shouting for help, whistle blowing and mobile phone reception is down etc. It's very light too. The cost is not prohibtive either at about £300, but that's your choice (if the law is changed) if you choose the expenditure. If you are with someone then that person can stay with you once the unit is activated rather than leave to find the nearest land based phone. BT are taking these out gradually.

The signal goes to RAF Kinloss who check the registered information (and the GPS signal location that is received) before alerting the SAR's. If the unit has been activated accidentaly at home they will ring the owner to let them know. There's also an Elected Point of Contact they can apply to for more info. Once they have satisfied themselves they will raise the SAR's. The GPS is accurate to 125 mtrs which will save the SAR's all lot of time and allow for a more prompt rescue, a brillaint advantage on what is available now.

They are not a tracking device as some of you seem to think they are. The GPS PLB is a transmitting signal only when activated, requiring OFCOM registration. Tracking devices require a monthy subscription and quite a few need mobile phone SIM cards which PLB's do not.

All that is required now is that the Database at RAF Kinloss is expanded to cope with in-land use and the law changed. SAR's have knowledge and equipment already in place.

Not prohibitive at £300?



Why does she think we are fell runners and not horse riders?

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Originally Posted by Margarine

Not prohibitive at £300?



Why does she think we are fell runners and not horse riders?

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Quite. £300 :eek:.

Three little words.

Cloud.


Cuckoo


Land.

I'll stick to spelling out in large lettering 'HELP ME YOU BASTARDS' with handy rocks and stones ;)

Of course the helicoptor may not see my SOS or may not get even off the ground but at least rocks are cheap!

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Originally Posted by Stolly

I'll stick to spelling out in large lettering 'HELP ME YOU BASTARDS' with handy rocks and stones ;)

Of course the helicoptor may not see my SOS or may not get even off the ground but at least rocks are cheap!

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LOL :D

Yes. We might grouse about paying £40 - £50 - £60 - £70 for our footwear and whatever it costs for weatherproof shells and thermal base layers; but at the end of the day we participate in a realistically affordable pastime.
Jenniwren will have paid at least £1,000 for her nag - could well be 5x that amount, between £500 & £1000 for the tack; and that's before she starts to kit herself out. Then there's the derigeur horse box with on board accommodation, for getting herself and the nag to events. After all that, £300 is a mere drop in the ocean.
25 years ago, a work mate of mine was passionate about competing in Saturday night navigational road rallies. He had a pukka, fully prepared Mk2 Escort that stood him at around £5,000 back then. He competed in an annual 12 event championship with entry fees at £45 per event (shared with his navigator). Before each event, it was a full major service including new brake pads and linings plus 6 brand new tyres at £60 each. All that was on top of running his regular road car that was needed to trailer the Escort to events.
Around that time the Fell Runner Magazine was full of letters protesting about the Ben Nevis entry fee being around £8!!!!!:rolleyes:

:D At least I don't have brake pads and linings on my horse! Yes I have kitted myself out with my hobby. There is not much cash at the end of it, but then I don't spend any time in the pub or smoking weed!

For my life I would willingly fork out another one off payment of £300 to live to see another day! Your Cloud Cuckoo land could have you on a mountain with hypothermia with your attitude:eek: . Read the PLB page on Equine Ramblers UK and educate yourself....don't be ashamed! A lot of this has come from very good sources.

:D At least I don't have brake pads and linings on my horse! Yes I have kitted myself out with my hobby. There is not much cash at the end of it, but then I don't spend any time in the pub or smoking weed!

For my life I would willingly fork out another one off payment of £300 to live to see another day! Your Cloud Cuckoo land could have you on a mountain with hypothermia with your attitude:eek: . Read the PLB page on Equine Ramblers UK and educate yourself....don't be ashamed! A lot of this has come from very good sources.

"I'll stick to spelling out in large lettering 'HELP ME YOU BASTARDS' with handy rocks and stones" In the dark these won't be seen! A PLB will transmit day and night!