Brexit

I'm intrigued that so far non of the commentators have picked up the 3rd way nuance that May has included today....she states the choice is the deal, no deal or, and this is new, no Brexit. Maybe she is playing brinkmanship, having played ball with trying to get a deal all along but knowing it would inevitably look shite...and now she can posit her true position. Remain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

and now she can posit her true position. Remain.

---

Oh that is cynical, not that I have ever though that myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wheeze

I'm intrigued that so far non of the commentators have picked up the 3rd way nuance that May has included today....she states the choice is the deal, no deal or, and this is new, no Brexit. Maybe she is playing brinkmanship, having played ball with trying to get a deal all along but knowing it would inevitably look shite...and now she can posit her true position. Remain.

---

I must admit Wheeze I've wondered something similar. It is quite hard to believe that our politicians and officials could really be quite so incompetent to come back with the most blatantly one-sided deal in history. Normally such agreements are reserved for countries who have lost a world war. Perhaps we will be made to sign it in a railway carriage in Compiègne.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

One of the skills of being a good negotiator is to appear inept - it disarms the other side.Others include never to reveal at what point you won't do a deal, don't negotiate in public, tell your own side only enough to keep them on board but no more than that, make the other side think they got a great deal and tell your own side the same, etc.

Sometimes I think Theresa May is smarter than many people think.

---

What do you say now Graham?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

Too right they're angry - they have been betrayed. It's not failed because an SNP type document hasn't been produced. It's failed because the people charged with carrying out are remainers so they never believed in Brexit. They saw it as an exercise in damage limitation not an opportunity. They have failed to use the UK's strong negotiating cards, the £40 billion exit bill, the fact that the EU has a large trade surplus with the UK and also our important contribution to European security. Worst of all is Phillip Hammond's criminal refusal to plan for no-deal. How can you take part in a negotiation without being prepared to walk away?

I admit this is partly the fault of some of the Brexiteers who could have taken the reins just after the referendum (i.e. Michael Gove stabbing Boris in the back).

---

Indeed, even a competent commentator like Rees-Mogg has shown poor judgement in continuing to back the prime minister whilst not backing the policy. Farage got it right when he said May would capitulate to the EU.

I stand by the first para and wrt the second; we aren't at the end game yet.

IMHO self-serving millionaires like despicable Johnson sold a gullible public smoke and mirrors wrapped up in a union jack and, like people have been doing for thousands of years - they fell for it. But anyone can sell dreams; the hard part is making the dreams come true. The Brexit camp never have explained how and and never could because it was and is impossible. But Johnson is paid around £7000 for every weekly column he writes for The Daily Telegraph so what does he care?

In negotiation it takes two to make a deal and this fundamental truth has long been beyond the intellectual grasp of most MPs.

Whatever the economic arguments: the EC is about ideology and the big guns of the 27 are not willing to jeopardise that and see the edifice crumble for the sake of mere money and giving the UK a good deal to be followed out of the door by Italy.

Theresa May might be lacking in some areas but compared with the poisonous, weak hypocritical dwarves she is surrounded by and given the task she alone was prepared to take on - she hasn't done a bad job but, alas, nobody ever said politics was fair or honourable etc.

But thinking of Italy: yesterday I ordered my Bianchi in celeste with Campag. groupset - so the sun will still come up in the morning.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

I stand by the first para and wrt the second; we aren't at the end game yet.

IMHO self-serving millionaires like despicable Johnson sold a gullible public smoke and mirrors wrapped up in a union jack and, like people have been doing for thousands of years - they fell for it. But anyone can sell dreams; the hard part is making the dreams come true. The Brexit camp never have explained how and and never could because it was and is impossible. But Johnson is paid around £7000 for every weekly column he writes for The Daily Telegraph so what does he care?

In negotiation it takes two to make a deal and this fundamental truth has long been beyond the intellectual grasp of most MPs.

Whatever the economic arguments: the EC is about ideology and the big guns of the 27 are not willing to jeopardise that and see the edifice crumble for the sake of mere money and giving the UK a good deal to be followed out of the door by Italy.

Theresa May might be lacking in some areas but compared with the poisonous, weak hypocritical dwarves she is surrounded by and given the task she alone was prepared to take on - she hasn't done a bad job but, alas, nobody ever said politics was fair or honourable etc.

But thinking of Italy: yesterday I ordered my Bianchi in celeste with Campag. groupset - so the sun will still come up in the morning.:)

---

Always so eloquent GB. ❤️ Have you been on top of Pendle tonight?

And I always thought CL was right about the rabbits ( and everything) until he started wittering about Brexit. I think that was more of a let down than the actual result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millipede

Always so eloquent GB. ❤️ Have you been on top of Pendle tonight?

---

Alas no.I sensed I would not be blessed to meet you in the dark two weeks consecutively so I stayed near my phone in case Theresa rang so we could share tears of anguish,despair and rage.

Quote:

---

Too right they're angry - they have been betrayed.

---

Correct. But not necessarily by the people they think they’ve been betrayed by, you need to look to Mogg and Johnson. Both of whom are self servings *****. Remoaners get a lot of abuse for not getting on board with Brexit (although it’s hard to get on board when no one tells you what it is), but the reality for remoaners is largely they don’t want to see their neighbours, family, friends, or themselves finding out what it feels like to have homes repossessed. How close to reality those fears are is another question.

Quote:

---

It's not failed because an SNP type document

---

You voted for something without a clear idea of what it would look like. It’s far from the only reason we are being fed a shit sandwich but it’s one of them. Although I do accept Leave probably learnt from the SNP here. If they did produce something it would have been prime ammunition for tearing their case apart.

Quote:

---

They have failed to use the UK's strong negotiating cards

---

This is something that’s been responded to so many times you’ll never accept the strong hand was never that strong.

Quote:

---

How can you take part in a negotiation without being prepared to walk away?

---

Because they are politicians with limited principles. None of them want to be responsible for making the electorate worse off and the political consequences that entails, and as they’re mostly remainers that’s what they believe would happen. Good job we’ve given them back control, maybe the ****ing idiots at least know where Dover is these days. For Christmas I might even send whoever is in charge directions to Felixstowe so they know about that as well.