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Kev
Are you certain that its your ITB's? Are you happy with the diagnosis? Is the ache under (in) the kneecap or on the outside of the knee? Or is it the bony lump a couple of inches below the kneecap? Outside probably ITB's, under then maybe not. You could just have some patellofemoral malalignment of your kneecap. Often mild cases of this can be caused by a one of the quads being slightly weaker than the rest. To compensate for the kneecap not aligning (due to quads pulling it to one side) a protective cartlidge builds up in the femoral groove. This can then cause friction, numb/dull pain, which can get progressively worse. Do you hear/feel any grinding or friction as you bend a loaded leg?
The pain is on the outside of the right knee and starts as a tightness and progresses to a dull ache and then a more painful ache. Can't say i've noticed any grinding or anything. Hoping that some stretching and glute work will help solve the problem.
ITBS: a bit if an old friend if I don't stretch regularly. Not just the classic ITBS stretches. I give the whole legs and lower back a good work out after every run. My symptoms were wandering aches in/around the knee, settling as an ache on the outside.
For ITB syndrome I'd recommend you get yourself a Dual Action Knee Strap.
It costs about £40 but it is well worth the money.
I suffered really bad last year with ITBS after stepping up the mileage. After reading up on the injury I bought the strap and was able to run again without the pain.
this looks like a good exercise
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-injuries.htm
At Preston Harriers track session last night, we where doing fast laps and then slow laps. The pain was pretty bad whilst on the fast laps but was worse on the recovery laps.
I didn’t tell anyone and just kept going for the duration of the session, until they noticed i was limping on the cool down laps.
I described my pain and they asked me a few questions about it.
Turns out its my Iliotibial Band, i googled it and its apparently a syndrome.
Definition: Pain and inflammation on the outside of the knee, where the iliotibial band (a muscle on the outside of the thigh) becomes tendinous, and results in a friction syndrome by rubbing against the femur (thigh bone) as it runs alongside the knee joint.
So has anybody suffered from this, its no longer a little niggle but actually sharp pain!
Ive took ibuprophen and iced it.
Any advise would be very helpful!
Unfortunately yes. Did it about four years ago when I increased my mileage too quickly. Had a few sessions with a physio getting ultrasound on it whilst doing no running or cycling. After about a month or so slowly (and I mean slowly) started running again, about 5 minutes max to begin with - on the flat, then by the time I'd got up to thirty minutes (about another month ) I could go onto hills. Probably took three months or more to get back.
3 months:eek: Dear god, all my bloody effort put ive put in in these last few months to be about to go down the drain.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Get thee to a physio!
Unfortunatly it is probably all that effort in last couple of months that has caused it.
Search the forum as there has been loads of advice on ITBS.
Everyone is different and gets it for different reasons, pronation, overuse etc etc.
I managed to get away with a drop in training, no long runs for a month and LOADS of stretching throughout the day. Others need to stop completely and rest.
Well it started after the Roaches Fell race on the 9th of Nov (i think it was then). I fell coming down shutlingsloe and my knee hit a rock so i dont know if it was that that started it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
I was shown the different stretches for it last night but it hurts when i stretch it so i think i should just stick to icing it for now until its less tender.
How much is a physio session these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
£30 quid a session usually a bit more for initial session - but think on - you only have one body (and you want to be able to give it lots of abuse).Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
i got this upping my milage too quick, it came on half way round hanging stone leap LDWA event - i had to finish doing a strange straight legged (well 1 leg) hop run thing
fortunately for me this was week before a 2 week holiday in spain - did some road biking (it even seemed to help! - but got a bit sore when i over egged it a bit - so try cycling and see if it helps/hurts - everyones different).
here is an extract ifrom an email i sent my mate (based on personal experience, internet research and no professional qualification whatsoever)
stretch, stretch and stretch,
i did a lot of icing, but i think over icing can upset
your knee a bit as well (i.e. reduces inflammation but
stiffens up surrounding muscles)
some sources even advocate warming before bed!
those stretches i showed you
(1)- IT band (standing with legs crossed bending
forward and leaning slightly towards back leg)
(2) -sitting on floor- which ever buttock you're
going to stretch you can either stretch the other leg
out in front of you or bend your heel to your bum -
then for the leg you're stretching - with your knee
bent tight and pointing up, cross your stretching leg
over and put your foot on the floor next to your non
stretching thigh.
(3) sitting on chair or squatting on one leg, place
foot/outside ankle of leg you're stretching onto knee
of other leg with knee dropped out to side. you can
push knee down with elbow and lean forward.
The stretch in figure 4, in the second link, doesnt
work for me unless i slightly flex the leg i'm
stretching. if i am stretching my right leg, i stand
sideways to the wall touching the wall with right
palm. i cross my right leg behind my left leg, then
supporting my weight a bit on the wall drop my hips
towards the wall. i feel more stretch when i slightly
flex my right knee. when you're in this position you
can stop leaning on the wall and get even more stretch
by bringing your right hand and arm over your head in
a stretching your side stylee.
STRETCH BOTH SIDES!!
stretch when you're slightly warm
if you do any of the hip abductor exercises be
slightly warm if possible and stretch after
the starting position for the exercise in the first
link,
-stand sideways on step with non affected leg off edge
of step and knees straight
- allow non affected hip to drop
-now slightly flex affected knee and bring weight onto
inside of the foot
even before doing the exercise movement this is a
really good stretch and you can reach your hand over
your head and lean to increase it.
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-injuries.htm
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050415/1545.html
http://www.anaerobic.net/runnersguide.html
- you can self massage the side of your thigh with
your hands, or with a rolling pin (bit small and
painful), with a roller (which i didn't have so i used
a metal sig bottle) - with rollers you put roller on floor and roll yourself on top of it!
- i also massaged my buttocks a bit, whilst lying on
my side in bed - which is all a bit odd - but seemed
to help
- i read you shouldn't massage in the immediate knee
vicinity as its an inflammatory condition - and its
all a bit angry and massage there ain't going to help
anyway sorry for this stream of consciousness essay!
i also found i could cycle (and not only that but it
seemed to help a bit)
ok enough stuff, hope this helps a bit (i would go
into the toilets at work and stretch when i needed a
break from my computer), could also be found standing
on steps by bemused people at work wondering why i was
gyrating in the stairwell.
Thank you very much indeed ratfink. I thought it be best not to quote your post as its rather large.
Some helpful info there.
I just tried massaging my leg and it feels really good, i haven’t tried rolling myself on a rolling pin yet though hehe.
I have stretching many times when ive been at uni, standing in the corridor waiting to go in for a lesson, people look at me weird as im stretching my hamstring haha.
As for cycling, ive got a 3 mile ride to Sainsbury’s tonight and so ill have another 3 miler back. I usually ride like a "nutcase" as my dad describes it so i may have to slow it down abit. I'll post when i know how the bike feels. That may be a good alternative if ive got go rest for a while as it would drive me mad not being able to run!
Thanks alot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
Depends where you go Al - if you can get down to the same one as me (bus stop outside it!) It's £30 for the 1st session then £27 after that.
They also see NHS patients now but I'm not sure where their referrals come from - I can ask??
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
Well im guna try everything ive been suggested to for now as i dont really have the pennys to go to a physio just yet.
If its not getting any better after a while, i'll go.
Whats your physio called Em, and where about is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
Hutton - I'll text you the details
Ok, cheers!....dam....ive left my phone in my room...,..ill have to hobble up and down stairs...Quote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
Not right NOW....strewth boy - calm down!! :rolleyes::D
Ive got in my pocket now anyway, i had to adapt the 'hop up-stairs' and walk backwards downstairs. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
Al, there's a stretch I came across on t' web that involves you standing on a step and tilting your pelvis. It all sounds very weird (as do most stretches in print) but it does help. Not sure if any of the above links are to it. I'll have a look in between :eek:working:eek:
How long should i ice for at a time.
I currently have tonights tea (packet of sweetcorn) strapped to my leg via my dressing down strap...:p
Found it :)
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-injuries.htm
Oops! Looks like it was one of the previous links ..
Haha, thanks again though, it explains it quite well what it is, all i need now is how the hell to pronounce it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Iliotibial Band? not sure where to start.
Ili-oti-bial Band?
illy - oh - tibby - al
Ahhhhhhhhhh i see, ta :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
If it clears up as quickly as your PF last month you'll be laughing ;)
Hmmm, well i flippin hope so. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ady In Accy
ITBS??? Took me three months to get rid off, and I usually heal fast... the secret is in stretch stretch stretch, as in 10x a day! And make sure you work out what caused it, or it will be back as soon as you start running again!
this has been bugging me for a good 11/12 weeks!!! some days i can run 5miles, no pain, other days after 1 or 2 mile it hurts, really really frustrating!!! im so unfit and reading that article saying it could be 6 months before it heals has really got me worried!! im going to a podiatrist on Tuesday to try and see about orthotics as iv noticed when i run my right foot (my right ITB is the one in pain) rolls in a lot (pronation?)
the person who got rid in 3 months who just stretched stretched stretched? what kinda stretches did you do? the ones in the article about having one leg lower than the other on a step? or what? i don't really understand it so has anyone got a picture which shows it better, otherwise im gonna have to read over it a LOT until i understand it.
The third link on this rings true with me-especially where the author describes says sometimes that faster running can be less painful when first starting to run again for some individuals rather than a slower plod.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratfink
Im coming back slowly and im trying to vary my speed (i find lifting the knees higher doesnt put as much strain on the knee?)-everything is ok up to now.
Im stretching carefully and following some specific core exercises-this is a new one for me!
No hill running yet though!:cool:
Well on the bike to Sainsbury’s felt pretty good. There was a slight twinge in the knee but nothing to affect me riding at my usual speeds.
Until of course i decided i'd had enough riding my bike and decided to jump off it at around 20mph and skim the floor:rolleyes:
I was on a badly lit cycle path that has a small curb in the middle of it dividing the cycle path with the pedestrian bit, but i didnt see it and my wheel hit it and i went flying. Compensation haha.
Made a bit of a mess to my palm and my other knee is abit sore this morning as i must has bashed that in the fall.
Sainsbury’s now think im a liability as i arrived to work with my hand dripping.....they have no idea:rolleyes: - atleast i only got my uniform that night so it was my own jeans instead that ive scuffed to hell.
I tried to hide the big blue plaster from my mum when i got home because i didn’t have my helmet on. She eventually spotted it "tut and shake of the head - now will you wear your bloody helmet".
But my ITB doesn’t feel to bad. Im yet to run though.
Stretches highlighted on these two threads. I really can vouch for them working!
I now recognise the early signs of tightning and start the stretches as prevention as opposed to cure now.
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?p=170245
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...highlight=itbs
search is your friend ;)
Brocky, the stretch I used, every time I touched a doorhandle (hint from the physio) was this one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocky1
Starting position: Upright standing.
Action: Cross involved leg behind uninvolved leg in standing position, with a stretched leg behind, and lean to the uninvolved side until a stretch is felt over outside of involved hip.
There are many more stretches you can do for the ITB, but this is the easiest and effective enough if repeated over and over again in the course of the day... hold for 30 seconds and do it both ways, i.e. stretch both IT bands, not just the one that is bothering you...
You can ice the points where the IT band attaches to the knee and hip if this causes you problems and you can also roll the IT band out yourself, either with your hands or 'the Stick' or a rolling pin... but I do find that a regular sports massage really helps loosening the IT band up when it is tight.
If you want more advanced stretches, let me know and I can post some up... I am a yoga therapist, so have books full of the things :D
That reminds me, i need to stretch my band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanneke
Al, stretch it everytime you go through a door... so that you remember to do it over and over again! I got that tip from a physio friend of mine, as I kept forgetting and stretching once a day isn't enough to shift it! As soon as I started stretching many times a day, it really helped. The IT band has not got much stretchable tissue in it, it is as strong as several steel cables interwoven, so it needs a LOT of repetitive stretching to make the difference!
Its one of those stretched that i find a right pain to do. I find stretching my hamstrigs fine as its easy to do but stretching the itb band is all new to me so its a bit uncomfortable i suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanneke
But practice makes perfect - "cringe"- hate that bloody saying.
Al, if you use the simple one, where you cross your legs and bend over sideways, that really isn't so hard... and can be done everwhere and anytime... just hold for 30 seconds, do the other side for 30 seconds and done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler