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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRunner
"In advance" of what? The opening date for applications?
Substitutions have always been allowed in the PPP within a club.
And as for a "cost penalty!" Would we have ever heard the end of that if the organisers had initiated it?
Nobody HAS to run the PPP. It is just a fell race. And my experience of running it over the last 20+ years is that not many on this Forum were that interested in doing so.
yeah, I'm a member of the fra and it doesnt show that on the register??:pQuote:
Originally Posted by who killed bambi
Page 99 of the Calendar sets out the Eligibility Qualifications for the English Championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
There is an old legal expression that "hard cases make bad law" but if people wanted to change the rule they have had ample time over many years: but they didn't.
And they were probably right not to.
Not sure all 650 would be pleased to be likened to Gaderenos:).Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
I may have missed some dialogue in previous months but I cannot recall any public response from the Ben organisers with regard to the discontent voiced on this forum and it will be interesting to see if the 3P organisers have a "public" opinion on what has happened.
Have I spotted a loophole?
It would appear that entries have slowed down because no more United Kingdom runners are being accepted.
But what is to stop folk telling porkies on the nationality box?
QV...
Nationality Spanish - Running Club Ilkley ?!?
Nationality Swiss - Running Club Wharfedale / P&B ?!?
Come on folks - that one didn't need Dixon of Dock Green to suss out!!!
Until they ask for your Spanish postcode as you try and get your number...Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleplodder
Personally I don't think the organisers have done anything wrong - yet!
However, that would change if they didn't check the entry qualifications of each runner who has applied.
If there are runners on there who have lied about their experience and they run the race in place of genuinely qualified runners who simply weren't quick enough to a PC then that's totally unfair. (The same technology that allowed the race to fill up so quickly can also be used to quickly check runners results).
More to the point these runners who, if they do actually turn up on the day, are only endangering themselves, the organisers and the sport by taking on a challenge that's possibly beyond them.
I only hope the organisers have the sense and decency to check the registered entrants, elliminate those that are not qualified and fill their places with genuine aplicants.
I have friends in my club who have entered for the first time after selecting the race because of its history and the fact that it'll be a big occasion next year. They have worked hard to do the necessary qualifiers and were quick enough on the keyboard to win a place - I have no beef whatsoever with these guys being in the race and I hope they enjoy the experience as much as I did when I ran it for the first time.
However, I have also overheard conversations, again within my club, between runners who 'were' considering entering who are totally unqualified for this event.
The last thing we should do is complain about the number of folk wanting to do it but the organisers owe it to themselves and those who missed out on getting a place to make sure that those who are on the start line genuinely deserve to be there.
By the way this is not 'sour grapes' as I'm on the lucky list:)
Gadarene: "indicative of mass panic"-sounds right to me. (Matthew: viii 28)Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Foot
However I refer you to my previous question as to what the PPP organisers have done wrong. They have made 650 fell runners happy for a start (hey!), elite runners will get in, substitutions will be allowed, they will mount a prestigious international event,..
So we are not all members of running clubs? So what? Why should it make a difference that I am not? Maybe I don't want to be a member of a club? I go running either on my own or with people I do adventure races with.Quote:
Originally Posted by who killed bambi
So I have not done the event before? So what? If it never got fresh blood the event would have died off long ago.
I started becoming interested in running around the time of last years 3 peaks and I made it my long term goal to do it the year as a proud yorkshireman. It then transpired that it was a world event, making me wanting to do it even more. I ensured I did the requisite races during the year under the old pre-requisites (Sedbergh, Borrowdale and the OMM amongst others). I checked with the organisers in June what I needed to do to ensure entry. I slowly improved over the year, came 27th in the OMM. Ran the 3 peaks as a training run before the OMM as my first recce. I checked the web-site on a regular basis and happened upon the entries on the morning they were released.
Does this make me less eligible or worthy than someone who did the race last year? I would obviously say NO
Think the only thing that may not have been a wise choice here is that it is both a world mountain running event and an FRA champ race. Maybe because of the increased profile it may have been wise to choose a different FRA champ race as the increased entries was always going to happen and the mad rush was always going to happen.
I'm not suggesting any wrong doing only wondering what their take on all this may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
Anyone still want a place? My mate lives in Spain.:D
Way back the PPP used to regularly get over 1000 applications and entries were restricted to say 400, so a LOT of people were turned away.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
Times changed and by 2003, which is not that long ago, there were just 205 finishers and the organising committee (of which I was a member) could extrapolate the continuous decline in interest to oblivion.
But a little bit of hoopla and hey! entries are hotter than a Led Zeppelin concert ticket.
Funny old world.
I think it would be better if fellrunners apreciated there are other races than the big ones. If you're upset about not getting in to the three peaks go and do LLanbedr to Blaenavon instead of sulking - it's utterly brilliant and only about forty people do it.
Yes I'm in the Three Peaks.
Wot, just like the forum???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
The PPP entry has frightened me.
Take the Lothersdale race, eod and if more than 100 runners turn up, the village is blocked by cars.
I suppose that next year I have to contemplate pre entry. Wow, a feeding frenzy for Lothersdale!!
One of the things I really like about fell racing is that i can decided mid afternoon to do an evening fell race. I think that is on the way out!
btw, Lothersdale is cancelled next year!
Lets face it Iain you've got to agree with me once in your life.
I don't do smilies any more.
Iain, have you deleted a post?
That's nonsense. You can be a member of the FRA without being a member of a club.Quote:
Originally Posted by who killed bambi
In advance of entries on the day. (I fully support pre-entries)Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
A cost penalty (which may be the loss of the full entry fee) for those atheltes who withdraw would discourage the touts.
Substitution allows many touts, who have no intention of particpating, blocking genuine entries from other fell runners.
All this about restricting entries to FRA members annoys me I'm not a FRA member as I already pay out best part of £100 a year on fees for clubs that I'm in not all running but still. I don't want to be a member of the FRA if people have these elitist oppinions where they want to restrict potential new runners. I've entered the 3 peaks I just happened to check the site everyday as I know what happenned last year when I waited to enter Edale I missed out so I weren't missing out again. Its not a case of cutting my teeth in this race either as I did it last year (was on for 3:30ish till half way up inglebugger and then had a nightmare as I'd done a marathon the month before) and have done a fair number fo other Cat A races under my belt ok maybe not as many as others but still makes me no less eligible to run than any one else. Its not as if you couldn't predict how quick it would sell out what with it being a championship race and world trophy. It also clashed with the National 12 stage relays so me entering this makes me dissapoint 11 other lads as I'm one of the better runners in my club but I didn't want to miss out on a world race. Ok its not fellrunning as people know it but how are you going to get new life into the sport to take over. When you look at the entry list theres an awful lot of vet runners of some description. Without an influx of runners fellrunning will eventually become a very small niche in a big running environment. Maybe thats what people want. Had i not got a place I'd be doing another race and have another target. If people want to restrict entry to FRA members you wouldn't see me very often. Ok I'm not a "true" fellrunner in that I've always run on the track and road and I only do 6 or 7 fell races a year. Like I've said I don't think this makes me any less eligable or capable of running the three peaks. It seems to me people are just bitter because they've missed out. Like the saying the early bird catches the worm. Had it been paper entry it would have been just the same but several hundred paper entries going in at once. Reading this thread and peoples attidudes has proper peeved me off.
Yours wondering if fellrunning is really what I want to do
Steve
CORRECTQuote:
Originally Posted by brett
Non members should be able to view but not post.
At the top of the page it states and I quote " the official forum of the FRA"
so that in my opinion is the people it should serve.
Lets be honest £12 a year is the best value for money in any sport.
£1 a month is not a lot for 3 top class mags, a rule book and calandar, discount at some outlets and a top website.
In total agreement Detritus. Why should people be members of the FRA to enter a race?
I'm assuming those that say that would never dare enter a WFRA race or a SHR race?
You should encourage people to join the FRA through things like the fellrunner mag, not encourage them by removing the right of them to race in the fells unless they join and force them into joining.
I agree with you about all the fees, it does add up so you can understand the occassional racer not joining the FRA.
I'm in the BMC, WFRA, Eryri, MLTA, WA, it all adds up, I'll probably join the FRA now for the magazine as I enjoyed reading it.
Totally DisagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Sometimes good ideas come from people who are outside of an organisation. If you make this forum members only then your are 1) closing your mind to the opinions of others, some of which could be useful and - 2) being very elitist which is not was this forum or fellrunning is about
If you havent got in to the 3 peaks then wish all who have good luck and move on.
I will be trying to enter the Mount Washington race in the USA next year. Its done on a ballot and I am not a member of the USA mountain running organisation - nor should I be to enter. Its always over subscribed and many are dissapointed. If I dont get in then C'est La vie. There are other races
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohns352000
ere ere, before we know, we'll all be sporting the same mustache and wearing t-towels on our head with silly handshakes to get in to the bar.
I didn't even bother to enter ajohn, but when I first looked on the entry list there were only 15 names:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohns352000
I do wish all the everyone good luck. They will need it to keep working to pay the £20 fee.
Lets face it the race is a classic but in true fell terms should not be an A cat.
It is good we all have different views, but I still maintain championship races should be for member only:)
If it was a members only championship it should be called the FRA championships not English championships as it wouldn't be open to all and sundry. If you are an attached runner you can run in all the other national champs provided you can meet certain standards so why shouldn't it be the same in fellrunning. I know all thats gone on in terms of UKA but if I remember rightly UKA and FRA are still in some kind of collaberation. Ok fellrunners may not wish to compete at the AAA's on the track but there may be some track runners or road runners that would like to compete at and are more than capable of competing at the English Championships on the fells. To make it members only doing the English Championships would be making fellrunning into what seems like a special group where you'd need secret handshakes and badges. I find it strange that at one end of the scale you have people who don't want to pay fees to run for a club and set up fell ponies and at the other people who want to make fell running elitist by making an English championships FRA only. There seems to be more beurocracy than racing goes on what with talks of independance and then what goes on the forum. Without this forum and being able to post I doubt very much I'd be getting/got into fellrunning. So to make the forum members only posting would be bad aswell. If people are bothered about the forum being for members only why don't you do what another club I'm in does and have an open area and a members only section where member only conversations take place. Although in the members only bit hardly anyone uses it anyhow. i think I've said enough or too much some may think. People have to wake up to the reality that fellrunning is catching up with the other aspects of running change is innevitable. Whether that change is good or not I don't know.
GraemeQuote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
On one level the organisers have done nothing wrong - the entry process was open to everyone (who has unrestricted internet access). As I said earlier good luck to those who've got in, I'm sure you'll have a great race. However...
first, as far as I know the only pronouncement about when entries would open was a general "sometime in November". If a date had been quoted then the people who were most keen could have joined the queue in true Harrods Sale fashion. From what I see, entries on this occasion depended largely on whether you happened to access the website on Monday of this week or whether you know someone who did.
second, I feel that a little bit of loyalty wouldn't have gone amiss. I ran the race when there were only 200+ finishers and I've run it for years (although nothing like eg Andy Hauser). Given that 2008 was guaranteed to be a busy one it would have been quite easy to give priority entries to people who supported the race regularly.
third, while it's true that there were years in the mid to late 90s when the entry limit was reached, it was also the case that anyone who was really committed to the race could get an entry. I don't know anyone who missed out then unless they were dopey enough to wait several weeks after entries had opened. There's a bit of a difference between that and the 24 hour window that applied in this case.
To anyone who's entered but finds they can't make it, please PM me and I'll happily take on your entry.
chris is correct in saying if your not in just go and do another race
which i will
but i still say i dont agree that the race should be full before the 2008 calendar has been distributed
Surely if a race is as popular as this, it can't be any good....
I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the suggestion that entry to a race such as The Three Peaks which happens to be an English Championship race in 2008 should be restricted to FRA members only. I had always felt that one of the good things about fell races in general is that they are open to everyone be they a member of the FRA or a UKA affiliated club or neither. It's good if people become interested enough in our sport to join the FRA but not essential and I personally don't like to see people being made to feel unwelcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
One aspect that is in danger of being lost in this debate is that all the races included in the English Championship are first and foremost individual annual races in the FRA Calendar. They are fixtures in our Calendar which will take place whether or not they are selected by the FRA Championship subcommittee for inclusion in the English Championships. What I am trying to say is that English Championship status is an add-on. So why should eligibility to enter an existing event be any different than in any other year? I wonder what many organisers would think if it was.
Not everyone who participates in the Three Peaks Race will be eligible to count in the English Championship - eligibility for most people (see P. 99 of the 2007 FRA Handbook) means being a member of the FRA or an English Club registered with England Athletics (the English part of UKA).
Sorry everyone. I didn't really mean to be so dismissive of those who are unhappy about the 3 peaks entries. But at least daz knows the point I'm making.Quote:
Originally Posted by daz h
Surely it's the organisers perogative to use online entry and saying 'sometime in November' meant that those who were really keen checked the website daily, if the organisers had set a date there would have been even more of a 'feeding frenzy' on the day.
Postal entry would still have been oversubscribed and people would still have been upset at missing out. Online entry must save the organisers a huge amount of clerical work and so I expect we'll see more of it in the future.
The only 'problem' I can see is that the race is just too popular. Not sure what the answer to that one is.
BTW Just had a lovely run over Inglebugger this evening. Beautiful moonlit night, didn't need the headtorch most of the way and could see for miles.:) :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blencathrafrommykitchen
Graeme?
"You talkin' to me?" (with acknowledgement to Scorsese, De Niro et al)
GrahamB
This received from Bill Wade
Please note that the 3 Peaks Race entry list is now full (except for overseas non-UK nationals). Information about arrangements for substitutions and a waiting list will be available soon on the 3 Peaks website.
Right, I've just got back from my jollies. 5 days in the Algarve - lovely.
When do entries open for this?
NOVEMBER 2008:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Postlethwaite
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Can anyone post a link to the three peaks website? I tried google and couldn't find anything.
Cheers,
Eric.
Tut, Tut Eric
On FRA site go to Links
Go to Race/event links
scroll down to Three Peaks
Hey Presto!
Wow, didn't know that was there! Thanks EpoQuote:
On FRA site go to Links
Go to Race/event links
scroll down to Three Peaks
Hey Presto!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Postlethwaite
Are you trying to be the first full leg amputee to complete the 3 p's race? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Postlethwaite some time ago....