Cramp!

Are we talking cramp in the torso or in the legs?

If it's legs, then I agree with Stolly. It's usually brought on by running outside your training, either in pace or distance (or both).

I was nowhere near as good as roadrunner, but my PB was 2:30 and I've done 27 marathons under 3 hours. I never took any food on board during a race and breakfast on race day would be one slice of toast and 2 cups of coffee. My food was already in my muscles, I reckon it's asking for trouble to divert blood to your stomach when racing at speed. It often makes me want to faint..

Neither did I use any sports drinks, I would just take water and, unless it was exceptionally hot, most of that would be thrown on my head and thighs to cool down externally. I suspect in most races I drank less than a pint and a half. Again what you need in the race should already be in your system. (AL fell races are quite different, there I certainly need both food and water in my stomach.)

The only cramp I suffered in 20 years of marathons was a stomach cramp in 1981 caused by swallowing water the wrong way and coughing violently. The ascent of Whernside in the 3Ps is a completely different matter, my calves always throw a little flutter up there, because I'm working outside my training.

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Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad

I was nowhere near as good as roadrunner, but my PB was 2:30 and I've done 27 marathons under 3 hours. I never took any food on board during a race and breakfast on race day would be one slice of toast and 2 cups of coffee. My food was already in my muscles, I reckon it's asking for trouble to divert blood to your stomach when racing at speed.

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Who said anything about running sub 2:30 marathons or racing at speed!!

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Originally Posted by stevefoster

I'll second the Nuun's tablets, never had cramp when i've used them. 3 Peaks Race, 3 Peaks Cyclocross, Lakeland 50 this year (very hot) suffered badly with cramp in the past and ended up walking like a monkey!

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I suspect that Snowdon wont be as warm as the 3p's, Run at a level you are comfortable with, don't eat too much if you havent trained yourself to eat. A good point by Roy about not eating, but only I think for sub 3 hours, 4 hours+ is a long time with out food, I'd at least take some gels etc.

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Originally Posted by Flopsy

Who said anything about running sub 2:30 marathons or racing at speed!!

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I did. Since the OP gave no indication of pace or time, I gave my experiences.

I also said that slower and longer runs do need food and water.

I take dioralyte before a long race. in MDS I took this before and after and SIS REGO (or Nuun) while running. I didn't take the horrible salt tablets the French medics pushed at us every day. No cramp. Agree with Whernside in 3P - terrible calf cramp there last year but none this year - same regime of drinking / eating, salts as ever but I had done a helluva lot more steep hills - didn't get up any faster though - just less pain.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've since found an article where it suggests that starting too fast is a major factor in later cramps. I suspect that I overdid it a bit, but also I didn't really do enough long runs before the race, hence why I ended up with hamstring cramps. I'll hope that starting slower will prevent it as my legs are no better trained due to injury.

The old rule of thumb for the marathon is that your collapse point (not literally collapse, but where your dreams expire in ignominious shame and frustration)) is at 3 times your daily average mileage.

In my experience I measured this over the 8 weeks prior to the race, based on a steady state of 30 mile a week background activity before stepping up for the event. I'd use my steady state, as opposed to racing, 10 mile pace as a marker.

I was generally under-trained and hoped to get to 21 to 24 miles on form before hanging on, so that's 7 or 8 miles a day on average. Throw in a 20 mile run and a rest day and some speed work and your weekly schedule should start to fall into place.

If you're any way short of that with an injury, then you must respect the distance and use the event as a useful training run for experience and enjoyment (which does rather predicate a seriously steady start). Good luck.