Think I'll be drinking some next Friday before the Fellsman then it's worth a go you thinking the same IDP?
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Think I'll be drinking some next Friday before the Fellsman then it's worth a go you thinking the same IDP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkarlo
Just has some and fell asleep in front of the TV, so I can assure all my fellow forumites it's good for relaxing full stop:o
used to be a pacer, have recently switched to pudsey and bramley
I have had reet bother with cramp in the last couple of years, and whilst I've heard of the quinine / tonic thing, I've always been sceptical, so have never tried it.... maybe have to revisit this and drink a bottle the night before my next Tri (Bala).Quote:
Originally Posted by team pie
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by team pie
I've tried this and it didn't work.
:D did not go down well in certain quarters admittedly!!
A Bowland clubmate, who has suffered with cramp in the past, has been using tonic water with quinine quite successfully for the last couple of years - he never misses completing any of the Lakeland Classics. Last year I cycled from Lancaster to Lands End over 6 days and knowing that I can cramp up in my calfs when on a long bike ride, I drank a couple of litres the day before we started and a couple of litres every day during the ride - NO CRAMP. However, the guy that I was riding with is a cyclist, not a runner, with around eight End 2 End's under his belt, and made me keep spinning on the small and middle rings of the chainset - seemingly pushing too big a gear is an instigator of cramp in the calfs.
Drank two tins last night and have just spent the day doing reps on Inglebugger and simon fell with about eight miles of running in between and was fine. Admittedly i do not normally suffer when training only when racing longer stuff...:cool:
Might be something in it! can you only find quinin when its in tonic water or can it be bought i a different form?
Doctors prescribe quinnie sulphate tablets to elderly people who suffer leg cramps, unfortunately, it is only available on prescription TP.
I may get an appointment and ask for some outright, i will send my mate denzil if need be, he is getting toward OAP status! ;)
"Fortunately" it is only available on prescription, VERY toxic in overdose (easy to acheive for a muddled up elderly patient). Entertaining list of side effects, including those particularly of interest to athletes: cardiac arrhythmias and hypoglycaemia. I've no idea what sort of dose you can give yourself by drinking tonic water and whether you could induce more risk by then dehydrating yourself or stressing your cardiac muscle. If you really have drunk enough to get a muscle effect rather than the 60% placebo effect just about anything will achieve, then perhaps you're at risk??? Any pharmacologists out there?Quote:
Originally Posted by martin hall
Hi Andy here from Hammer http://www.hammernutritionuk.co.uk/
this is an extract from an article i have on my website, it is a little long and please excuse the Americanism's.... Here goes
. Remember to replenish electrolytes during exercise.
You can get your energy fuels (“gasoline”) dialed in right, but if you neglect the electrolytes (“oil”), the dash light comes on-except your body doesn't have a dash light. Instead, you get cramps, spasms, muscle revolt, irregular and rapid heartbeat, and major bonk. Don't wait for the light to come on; those are the final symptoms of increasing impairment. If you don't respond well before your body's oil light comes on, you can pretty much kiss optimal performance, and probably the whole race, goodbye.
Don't rely on salt tablets to fulfill electrolyte requirements.
* “Electrolyte replenishment” does not mean “sodium or salt replenishment.” Sodium chloride (a.k.a. “salt”) is indeed an important component of electrolyte replenishment but it does not fulfill the entire requirements. Calcium, magnesium, and potassium should be replenished as well as all these minerals play key roles in the maintenance of many important body functions.
* Most of us obtain more than enough salt from our daily diet and most athletes have a reservoir of upwards of 8,000 – 10,000 mg stored in body tissues. In other words, when you start your race you’ll most likely be doing so with a huge reserve of sodium chloride “on board.”
* Keep in mind that “too much” can have as many performance inhibiting-to-ruining consequences as “not enough.” Over the years we have observed that far too many athletes “over salt” their bodies during exercise, with a variety of maladies such as bloating, water retention (edema-like symptoms), and stomach distress being the usual and undesirable outcome.
When it comes to sodium/salt replenishment the key is to provide an appropriate dose to support the maintenance of normal body functions without overwhelming the body with too much, which will override and neutralize those mechanisms.
How much salt is enough? Electrolyte depletion is widely variable—you can't rely on a “one-size fits all” bottled drink or drink mix. You need to experiment and find your own range for any given weather condition and duration of exercise. That being said, 200-400 mg of sodium chloride (salt) per hour, as part of a full spectrum electrolyte replenishment product, is a good starting point for most athletes under most conditions. That’s the amount you’ll receive in 2-4 capsules of Endurolytes(this is a Hammer Product). Certainly there will be occasions when 100-200 mg of salt (1-2 Endurolytes) will be completely adequate; on hot-weather workouts or races, it may be necessary to consume 500-600 mg/hour (5-6 Endurolytes).
for the full article go to or visit 'endurolyte product on my website'
http://www.hammernutritionuk.co.uk/f...o_improve.html
hope this is of some use
Andy
Struggled round this on saturday- got cramp loads- hydrated well and kept chucking back the electrolytes- perhaps it was the preponderance of tarmac. I know this is a reccurring theme on the forum but what strategies do people use to stop getting cramp?
sometimes i'm fine and other times its a real pain. It really scuppered my race and forced me into survival mode this time! any shared knowledge appreciated:):)
Nuun tablets seem to do the trick:)Quote:
Originally Posted by bograt
I seem to be getting more than my fair share of cramp lately. Does anyone know the latest on cause/cure? Is there a quick fix?
Electolytes... favourite seems to be NuunQuote:
Originally Posted by Stef F
tonic water is also good
Lack of hill work
Nuun tablets
:)
I use nuun for mountain marathons - I still get cramp at the over night camps and have had quite nasty headaches after these too. :confused:
Nuun is a bit expensive for daily use. Is there a natural source of electrolytes?
You can make do just with salt & water (pref. sea salt which has a mix of minerals)... I don't know the ratios so you'll have to look it up ( you DO NOT want it too salty!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef F
The quinine in tonic water prevents cramp... you could try asking your doctor to prescribe some quinine tablets!
Going to the GP would mean time off work. I'll try the tonic first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
The risk of too much salt puts me off the saline option. It would depend on body mass I think.
Lack of hill work - I'm doing my best!
Does it matter if the tonic has gin in? :D
No. The concentration is not dependent upon body mass. If I have time I'll try and get the correct levels for the solution to be isotonic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef F
Thanks although I'm wary - I wouldn't want to poison myself :eek:
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stef F
I'll ask the biologists at uni tomorrow!
6 parts gin:1 part vermouth sounds about right?:p
Now I know you're trying to poison me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
This has been mentioned before, no GP in their right mind would prescribe quinine for an athletes cramp, it's very toxic in overdose (cardiac effects, blindness), effect on dehydrated athletes uncertain, effect on exercising heart would worry me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Also this stuff about salt and cramp is very controversial from a scientific viewpoint - whether it causes cramp, whether you can actually lower blood sodium through sweating (Noakes et al think not they reckon its through overhydration), and not least whether you can do anything about it by ingesting salt as tablets or as electrolyte solution during exercise.
Are you all being taken for a ride by the manufacturers of NUUN tablets? (No anecdotal evidence please).
I'm not sure this will work as a cure but at least you Won't care..:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Lots and lots of fluids!
I cant say im a fan of cramp either, get it all the time in the most wierd places - got it in my hamstring paintalling yesturday :confused:
I will translate: got it in my hamstring paintballing yesterday:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
That's not a weird place Al, i once got in my eyelash and earlobe:D
[QUOTE=Al Fowler;205525]Lots and lots of fluids!
QUOTE]
Very debatable. Lots and lots of fluids will actually lower your plasma sodium level, even if that fluid is an electrolyte solution. Adequate fluid replacement for the conditions and length of exercise activity would be more logical.
Thankyou merry for the translation.Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
I know its not wierd getting it in the 'hams', but i thought getting it when paintballing was wierd. Ive had it under my jaw and that wasnt very nice, but eyelash and earlobe is something i dont want to try!
Is the general consensus the cramp is caused by dehydration?
It occurred to me that my cramp did get worse at about the time I began on a string of antibiotics - the instructions were to drink lots of water. Maybe I didn't drink enough.
I'm on the tonic water side of the fence....seems to work for me Stef and I do have an awful lot of salt on food so use this as an excuse to justify it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef F
I think yes it does have something to do with dehyration, I know the times I've suffered with it most are on the hotter days
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
not much salt
ive just fell off my seat:confused:
Hi EmmaQuote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
I only generally use salt on tomatoes, eggs and chips. I don't put any in my cooking unless it's tomato based eg spagh bol.
It's definitely worth trying the tonic - shame it tastes so bad!:(
Stef
EH?? I said I have far too MUCH salt.....you lost your contact lenses again? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by daz h
I actually really like the taste of it so I suppose that helps.... certainly worth a try nothing ventured I suppose. I tend to drink a whole litre bottle the night before a long race at least although I also have to admit that I haven't been doing that recently as have been doing calf strengthening exercises alongside the training.....I'm guessing your cramp is in the calf (apologies not read back to the first post to refresh my mind) I've found as the muscles are getting stronger and bigger :o the cramp issues have reduced dramatically....not sure if this is co-incidence or not as am no sports pys..phys....fizzition!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stef F