Bob Graham Route Choices

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

I did leg three over the week end and wondered over a route choice. I only had time to do one version which appears to be the 'official' short route but has more climbing over rougher terrain. any one done both or has an opinion. I'd like to go back and try it but theres only so much time.

On leaving Pike O Stickle you drop to Martcrag Moor before

1)cutting the corner via the Langdale Combe and climbing/traversing under Black Crags until you can traverse the false summits to Rossett Pike.

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The quickest and driest route is to leave PoS and follow the main path until it becomes a series of stepping stones. Down and left is a small rocky knoll, go round this and head directly for the left hand side of the tarns on top of Martcrag moor. If you get the right line this is dry underfoot - it was in February - and is easy running ground. Eventually you join a trod that is used by the Langdale fell race and drops you straight to the beck crossing in Langdale Combe. Go up the opposite slope for 100m then take another trod leftwards to the nick in the skyline (also part of the Langdale route). From the nick bear left again and follow a good path along the valley edge until you overlook Rossett Gill and then up to the summit.

This way is virtually all on grass and with the exception of the pull up from the beck in Langdale Combe, easy angled.

On my BG round, I gained time on a faster contender when they went further right aiming for "grassier" terrain. I also gained time on my schedule despite having really bad leg cramps on PoS and having just lost 6 minutes in 12 on the short section from Harrison Stickle to PoS.

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Originally Posted by Bob

The quickest and driest route is to leave PoS and follow the main path until it becomes a series of stepping stones. Down and left is a small rocky knoll, go round this and head directly for the left hand side of the tarns on top of Martcrag moor. If you get the right line this is dry underfoot - it was in February - and is easy running ground. Eventually you join a trod that is used by the Langdale fell race and drops you straight to the beck crossing in Langdale Combe. Go up the opposite slope for 100m then take another trod leftwards to the nick in the skyline (also part of the Langdale route). From the nick bear left again and follow a good path along the valley edge until you overlook Rossett Gill and then up to the summit.

This way is virtually all on grass and with the exception of the pull up from the beck in Langdale Combe, easy angled.

On my BG round, I gained time on a faster contender when they went further right aiming for "grassier" terrain. I also gained time on my schedule despite having really bad leg cramps on PoS and having just lost 6 minutes in 12 on the short section from Harrison Stickle to PoS.

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Hmm sounds like you've got the best of both worlds. We must have gone too far left as we ended up climbing a steep rocky rake for what felt like an eternity. (Longer and steeper than the BB rake).

I'll try it out next time i'm up there thanks

Interesting observation about the descent from yewbarrow.

For years I have done one of two things
(a) The normal descent to the col between two tops, then
horrible sidehill traverse to below stirrup crag
(b) Part way down (a) Then using a grassy rake to drop to the valley floor

On a reccie yesterday I noticed that the shallowest descent on the map,
and nicest grassy descent is almost immediatel after leaving the summit around 100 m from it on a line almost dead reckoning red pike:

After a couple of hundred metres of traverse descent there is a narrow grassy reentrant that allows a drop of 200 feet, then a trod that continues a sidehill traverse descent: finally just before hitting any rocks, a grassy shute takes you down to the bottom, probably 300m from the col below stirrup.

It leads to a firm grass ascent heading right of all visible crags, and crossing the stream to regain the path, and then head right of the path on grass to redpike.

OK you lose a little height ( not much!) but get rid of all of the scree crossing, and it is fast and got to be 400m shorter - and it is a pleasure to do.

Maybe not new to some people, but new to me!

Food for thought? Bet Billy used it on his walk BG

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On a reccie yesterday I noticed that the shallowest descent on the map,
and nicest grassy descent is almost immediatel after leaving the summit around 100 m from it on a line almost dead reckoning red pike:

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Tried to find this yesterday but was very thick cloud on top and cold not make out an obvious route down, seemed very rocky everywhere? Is it clear where to drop down?

I use the traverse then down a scree shoot halfway along that lands you at the stream ref 173 093 I then follow the stream branch up to 171 095 before cutting straight up to join the path where it levels out.

Looking back to Yewbarrow from where I first join the stream I could make out a line on grass coming to the same point which would save all the rough traverse, of course the cloud had cleared when I got there and I could see up to Yewbarrow summit, again getting down to the grassy terrain was not very clear as there seemed lots of small crags about.

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It leads to a firm grass ascent heading right of all visible crags, and crossing the stream to regain the path, and then head right of the path on grass to redpike.

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Is this stream the same one I follow?

Bill

I'm a newby to the forum. I made an attempt at the BG 2 years ago and had a terrible line up Fairfield. Ended up dropping out at Wasdale. Will be supporting Dan Booth for an attempt in June. Does anyone know the best route up Fairfield? I'm told there is a direct route up. Is it just straightlining up from the Tarn outflow stream to the summit or is it a bit more subtle? Any comments gratefully received.

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Originally Posted by Forrest Gump

I'm a newby to the forum. I made an attempt at the BG 2 years ago and had a terrible line up Fairfield. Ended up dropping out at Wasdale. Will be supporting Dan Booth for an attempt in June. Does anyone know the best route up Fairfield? I'm told there is a direct route up. Is it just straightlining up from the Tarn outflow stream to the summit or is it a bit more subtle? Any comments gratefully received.

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I think a lot of people go via the col between Fairfield and Seat Sandal

Bill

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Originally Posted by Baggins

I think a lot of people go via the col between Fairfield and Seat Sandal

Bill

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Thanks 4 the quick reply. Which way round the tarn?

From Dollywaggon I went straight down heading towards Seat Sandal from the old gate, following the line of old fence posts, then contoured round to the hause. Here's a shot showing the two alternatives - blue is the direct line, pink is the main path.

On my recent BG we went via the Hause and then took a line up and down the grass on the right of the wall as you look up Fairfield from the col, this avoids the horrible scree slopes/path. The other line commonly used goes to the left of the blue line on Bob's photo; you follow the small stream up about 100m and then the path goes leftwards, and then straight up to come out just below the little rock steps on the path betwen St. Sunday and Fairfield.
I think that there is little time difference in whatever way you go and what is more important is saving energy and having a way that you are happy with.

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Originally Posted by little binnian

On my recent BG we went via the Hause and then took a line up and down the grass on the right of the wall as you look up Fairfield from the col, this avoids the horrible scree slopes/path. The other line commonly used goes to the left of the blue line on Bob's photo; you follow the small stream up about 100m and then the path goes leftwards, and then straight up to come out just below the little rock steps on the path betwen St. Sunday and Fairfield.
I think that there is little time difference in whatever way you go and what is more important is saving energy and having a way that you are happy with.

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Thanks for the advice both of you. Last time we dropped down too low and headed off too far to the north and wasted a lot of time. I like the idea of going to the right of the wall, I'll give that a try next time I'm training.:)

On my BG last weekend we went round the back of the tarn -there is a stream to fill up here if you are short of water -then from the hause up and over the wall and climbed to the right of it -then coming down we just used the eroded zig zags and it seemed to work well -on the descent to Dunmail I gained 10 minutes on the schedule by going straight off the 'nose' slightly right heading for the north end of Steel Fell - if you want any more route choices let me know - what you need most is weather like we had last Saturday - I would not have got round this weekend!

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Originally Posted by Number 6

On my BG last weekend we went round the back of the tarn -there is a stream to fill up here if you are short of water -then from the hause up and over the wall and climbed to the right of it -then coming down we just used the eroded zig zags and it seemed to work well -on the descent to Dunmail I gained 10 minutes on the schedule by going straight off the 'nose' slightly right heading for the north end of Steel Fell - if you want any more route choices let me know - what you need most is weather like we had last Saturday - I would not have got round this weekend!

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Congrats on you successful round. Which route did you take of the top of Great Calva?

We went straight over the fence at the summit cutting across to the fence Then followed that down to Whiley Gill.Go through the gate and heather bash to a grassy rake.Down this to Whiley Gill then follow the stream past the sheep fold and a fence, crossing it to hit the Caldew to the right of the confluence.Then 140 degrees up to Blencathra - hit the main path and then go right just before a ruined sheepfold -as on Bob's website -we missed the best trod through the screes but it worked fine - 3 hours 45 to Threlkeld which gave me a real boost for the rest of the day

I'm off for some night time and early morning fun this weekend. More BGR recceing. If anyone fancies joining me for a run, feel free.

Plan is to start at Honister at about 10pm and run leg 5. Break in Keswick (at car) to eat and ready myself for a 2am start for leg 1. Then (having dumped gear at T'keld) it's off for a run along the Dodds and the rest of leg 2 to be done for about 10ish at Dunmail, where more food will have been stashed. After that, it's a bus or hitch back to keswick, a kip in a layby for a bit and then a drive home.

IF you see someone with their thumb out on sunday morning at Dunmail Raise, take pity on them and take them to Keswick, please :)

Also, i'll be hoping to bus or hitch to Honister on saturday afternoon/evening but if anyone happens to be around and can drop me there, that would be marvellous.

Cheeky i know but if you don;t ask...

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Originally Posted by Swiss Toni

IF you see someone with their thumb out on sunday morning at Dunmail Raise, take pity on them and take them to Keswick, please :)

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I'm doing a Duddon valley recce on the Saturday will be coming back Sunday morning via Ambleside so will look out for you, sorry can't help on Saturday.

Bill

Aw thanks! Looks like the 9.40 or 10.40 bus will serve me well otherwise...

Swiss Toni
Just read your blog and pleased you ok!
On Sat. evening I jogged up to Dale Head from Newlands church with a view to having a look over the last leg. I hung around for a while but you obviously never arrived so, being frightened of the dark, I decided on an easier route back via Honister and road to Grange then Manesty. Good fun trying out me head torch and very interesting finding way down scree & waterfall in Yewthwaite Gill.
I then did 5hrs. on Dunmail to Rossett & back on the Sunday. Happy Days
Looking forward to more recce's before my attempt on 20/21st July

Hi All,

Calf Crag - Sergent Man
I spent the weekend in the langdales and decided to have a run of a few peaks of the BG at BG pace.

I went from Sergeant Man - Calf Crag - Steel Fell and Back.

I was fine between Sergeant Man and Calf Crag on the way out and calf crag - steel fell was fine, but could not for the life of me find a path or sheep trod on the way back between Calf Crag and Sergeant Man and completely blew the schedule.

My reasoning on how I managed it okay on the way out is the fact that it was pretty much down hill all the way and it did not really matter about paths. That would be on a anti-clockwise round.

So my question is on a clockwise round is there a decent path or trod from Calf crag up to Sergeant man. I just seemed to be on tough going grass all the way.

Cheers
Jamie

We have always had no problem finding the track which is a good way up and the reason why I would always recommend doing Sergeant Man before High Raise on the clockwise round
See http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Polylin...7zbh&encType=1
It is also equally quick to go to the left (south east) of the summit of Coledale Head and then descend to where the Easdale path crosses the stream

I certainly can't argue that one way is quicker than the other, but the way I'll be going in a couple of weeks is Calf Crag - High Raise (via Birks Gill, then compass over the grass) - Sergeant Man. We did this with DD last year & I've reccied it twice this year and had no problems with the schedule, so it'll do for me.

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Originally Posted by NotOnUrHelly

I went from Sergeant Man - Calf Crag - Steel Fell and Back.

I was fine between Sergeant Man and Calf Crag on the way out and calf crag - steel fell was fine, but could not for the life of me find a path or sheep trod on the way back between Calf Crag and Sergeant Man and completely blew the schedule.


So my question is on a clockwise round is there a decent path or trod from Calf crag up to Sergeant man. I just seemed to be on tough going grass all the way.

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On my round, Ali and his support were gaining on me from Steel Fell, they went Calf Crag - High Raise - Sergeant Crag whereas I went Calf Crag - Sergeant Crag - High Raise and gained time on them - we passed about a minute from the summit of High Raise. This way has the advantage of being on good paths all the way which could be a help if it is misty.

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Originally Posted by Bob

On my round, Ali and his support were gaining on me from Steel Fell, they went Calf Crag - High Raise - Sergeant Crag whereas I went Calf Crag - Sergeant Crag - High Raise and gained time on them - we passed about a minute from the summit of High Raise. This way has the advantage of being on good paths all the way which could be a help if it is misty.

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I would agree with Bob.

Did High Raise first on mine but did Sergeant Man first on Yiannis' 60@60.

This felt easier, being on trods and short grass the whole way.

I know Yiannis researched all lines extremely thoroughly before his 60@60 so think this must have been the quickest way.

Having said that, if, like GeoffB, you're happy with t'other way, and your navigator is too, then why not? :)

Cheers, Ali

reckon sergeant man first is definitely better going clockwise. you're on good tracks wheras the tusscks are trying going up high raise the other way.

anticlockwise I would also do sergeant man first as its a better descent on grass from high raise.

Fascinating!

I have now had chance to reccie just about every variant possible from Great Calva in the last 3 months.

(a) First the "accepted" route down the fence line, a thrutch along the river
bank a climb then along the small trod across mungrisdale eventually in a high traverse across the scree to the summit.

(b) My original preferred route: to the sheepfold , down a grass rake to the caldew crossing at the narrowest point more or less on the shortest line.

(c) Following the nose S then swinging SSE and crossing the caldew at the junction of streams, using the pipe and fence to avoid wet feet around 200 m west of (b)

Both (b) and (c) take a gradual ascent on the W flank of mungrisdale
using the last stream W of blencathra as a handrail for the
final climb to ensure reaching the summit even in clag,

(another advantage there is water just before the final ascent at an old ruined building. )

Of these despite the long heather which is not pleasant and reduces you to
a walk in the lower slopes , crossing the caldew to start to rise takes 16 mins for on either route (a) and (c), but onnly 15 mins for (b) which takes the easiest line on the valley floor

(c) was a minute quicker at 65 mins against 66 for (b) and 70 for (a) simply,
I think because the line to blencathra on (b) and (c) is better and with less tussocks shorter grass and easier going after the first bit of climb. (b) is probably better , because (c) is a thrutch on the valley flloor


But are these FASTEST? NO !
READ THIS!!!

And I am gobsmacked at the answer. After Celias BG on sat,

I went back on Mon and took the good path down SW towards skiddaw house, up past skiddaw house, down the path until it bends, and deadreckoned blencathra from there.

AND THAT IS FASTEST BY A LOT!!!! - Why? It is easy running! 9.5 mins from the top , to the bridge proves I was only jogging the mile down to achieve this! , and could have got down minutes quiicker with little more effort.
- 5 mins walk/jog up to skiddaw house - I dont have a
split to the bend, but it was only around 3 min.
Then 45 min to the summit! TOTAL 60 dead!

I can provide more details of the line to anyone interested, but it is not far of
straight allowing for traversing into the stream gullies on the W flank of mungrisdale.

Why is this so? One answer is that it retains height better than any caldew crossing, despite a small climb. But mainly it is easily runnable till the climb, which no other line offers


Food for thought

I suggest every contender tries it. If like me, you prefer carlside to get to
skiddaw because it is either run or walk, no question, then you will like this
too!

PS - also tried an ascent and descent of middle tongue in place of halls fell.
It may be a good line for anyone capable of 60@60 with feet like a mountain goat but not for ordinary mortals. Whilst I got down in 29 min it was thoroughly unpleasant!

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I went back on Mon and took the good path down SW towards skiddaw house, up past skiddaw house, down the path until it bends, and deadreckoned blencathra from there.

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Looks interesting I'll try this out some time.

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It is easy running! 9.5 mins from the top , to the bridge

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Then it must be quicker to go up as well instead of going via the path by the stream when coming from Skiddaw?

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I can provide more details of the line to anyone interested

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I'm all ears :)

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also tried an ascent and descent of middle tongue in place of halls fell.
It may be a good line for anyone capable of 60@60 with feet like a mountain goat but not for ordinary mortals. Whilst I got down in 29 min it was thoroughly unpleasant!

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Why was it unpleasant?

Bill

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Originally Posted by Baggins

Then it must be quicker to go up as well instead of going via the path by the stream when coming from Skiddaw?

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I doubt it, because it is on the wrong line for the descent from Skiddaw -
the stream path is pretty good these days for ascent:but it might be worth trying. Also, whilst the path is good on the way down, the lower part is difficult to see from below. You will see what I mean when you try it.

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Originally Posted by Baggins

Why was it unpleasant?

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If you get the right line, which is to go almost to the second peak before descending, it is short grass all the way down to the nose, it is steep enough to mean that you cant do much more than walk.

The descent from the nose (50 feet) is both shaly and slippy, and beware of a sheer drop of 10 feet at the bottom! , so traverse left of the stream! and the valley floor at the bottom is a thrutch. alternating sides of the stream. I also tried a traverse line on the E flank from the nose and it was no better.

I also think it would be dangerous in the dark!
(The line down middle tongue is right of the rock outcrop at the top, just before the ascent to the second top of blencathra, left of the next outcrop you see, right of the scree that descends steeply from there, over the first nose, and right of the bottom)

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Originally Posted by Baggins

I'm all ears :)

Bill

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Will drum up some grid refs.

Although I like rock more than heather, I think the descent from Blencathra via Middle Tongue is the quickest but some of it is very steep. I don't follow Middle Tongue, I cross it and drop to the stream W of the Tongue, then down to Gate Gill.
ydt

Please draw your favoured Calva to Blencathra route for us on http://maps.live.com/

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Originally Posted by ydt

Although I like rock more than heather, I think the descent from Blencathra via Middle Tongue is the quickest but some of it is very steep. I don't follow Middle Tongue, I cross it and drop to the stream W of the Tongue, then down to Gate Gill.
ydt

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I agree ,
I am sure for a good descender that it is quickest!

I tried a traversing descent towards middle tongue last week, but was unhappy about crossing some of the steep shaly scree (grade a wimp!, and is why my next attempt involved starting closer to the second top)
Agree with the line to the W of the tongue.

Out of interest if you look at the hill side on gate gill fell there is a traverse path at the height of the final nose (70-80 feet off the valley floor on the side of gategill fell which is worth trying as an alternative to the gill bottom.

Doesnt alter the fact that IMHO need to concentrate every inch of the way! so didnt enjoy, and in the dark it could be dangerous.

Have another couple of experiments I want to try.

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Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

I doubt it, because it is on the wrong line for the descent from Skiddaw -
the stream path is pretty good these days for ascent:but it might be worth trying. Also, whilst the path is good on the way down, the lower part is difficult to see from below. You will see what I mean when you try it.

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Again I think that the route from the track crossing to the ridge is quicker than taking the path by the beck. Jo Stoat did the latter while I went via the ridge and despite him being near the head of the beck when I left the track crossing I was at the summit before him. There is a path from the first bend in the beck that leads to the ridge. It fades away about 100m short of a solitary fence post (something to do with the Cumbria Way apparently) and then you are on the grassy path on the ridge.

I'd like to see the line you mention going from Great Calva to Blencathra. I have always reckoned on something approximating to your route B to be as efficient as is possible: Head down the S ridge of GC for a couple of hundred metres then drop into a vague reentrant to gain the track then a little bit of heather bashing to get to the river before taking a direct line to the summit of Mungrisedale Common from where a good path leads to the final slopes of Blencathra whence you traverse across the screes to gain the saddle and then the summit. When traced on a map it is very close to the straight line between the two summits. I reckon it is about 10mins quicker than your route A.

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Originally Posted by Bob

Again I think that the route from the track crossing to the ridge is quicker than taking the path by the beck. A.

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Reckon I will look for a descent route from skiddaw that hits that path directly.

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Originally Posted by Bob

I have always reckoned on something approximating to your route B to be as efficient as is possible: Head down the S ridge of GC for a couple of hundred metres then drop into a vague reentrant to gain the track then a little bit of heather bashing to get to the river before taking a direct line to the summit of Mungrisedale Common from where a good path leads to the final slopes of Blencathra whence you traverse across the screes to gain the saddle and then the summit.

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The only issue at the moment is the heather is almost 2 feet deep in places: when the heather was burnt down 6-7 years ago and fast running, I reckon the near straight line was a lot faster than it is now. On route (a) the descent down the fence is heather free, route (b) the lower reaches are only walkable, although I agree i think it is still faster - but only maybe 4-5 mins.

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Originally Posted by Bob

I'd like to see the line you mention going from Great Calva to Blencathra.

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Here goes.from the top:
Skirt calvas first top tot he right, then down the good path that leads to 284299 track crossing( path not shown on harveys at all!) - the last 200m the trod wiggles a bit , and is hidden a little by overhanging heather but is good running never the less.

Up to skiddaw house, passing it to the left, and follow the track down to
294288 track bend/fence.

And theres the thing - you get there in 17 mins which is only the same time it takes to cross the caldew on the "usual" fence route - yet you are already 200 feet higher.

Then ( it is a bit damp crossing the valley: you could shorten this by crosing more straight W) - first aim for the remains of a sheep fold? stones? you see at 301285 dont try and climb too high too quickly now, because you dont want to drop into roughten gill: I think I crossed sinen gill at about 303283 where there is a trod which takes you round to roughten gill. Aim to cross roughten gill at just above stream junction 311279 then dead reckon the summit from there.

I aimed to hit the ridge W of blencathra, just to make sure I knew which side I was approaching from.

Because the route is a traverse it isnt as steep a climb as it appears as first sight.

Why does this route work:
First, because just jogging you get as far as the fence 294288 in a similar time that it takes to cross the caldew by any other route.
Second because you are already 200 feet higher than the normal caldew crossing.

But the main reason is the nature of mungrisdale common. It is at that awkward gradient where you figure you should jog, but the nature of the ground( tussocky /wet) makes it too much effort. So I reckon that is where the time is lost.

Other than the short valley crossing at 296285 which is wet, but not nearly as bad as the caldew valley floor the ascent is all essentially on firm short grass: and the traction that gives makes for better climbing.

But as with all things, I think it depends on people - who are all different in terms of terrain likes and dislikes.

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Reckon I will look for a descent route from skiddaw that hits that path directly.

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Great minds think alike :D

Its shaley scree on Skiddaw very fast to descent and theres lots of sheep trods heading towards Hare crag

Bill

Why not continue the logic of staying on good tracks and follow the track to the Guide Stone at 292279 and there turn left to cross the bridge over Glenderaterra Beck, still on a good track, turning off it at the bridge over Roughten Gill at 298276 where you can pick up trods up the south side of Roughten Gill to about 308278 from where you dead reckon to the ridge path half way between Gategill Fell top and the summit
see http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Polylin...7nwy&encType=1

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Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

Then ( it is a bit damp crossing the valley: you could shorten this by crosing more straight W) - first aim for the remains of a sheep fold? stones? you see at 301285 dont try and climb too high too quickly now, because you dont want to drop into roughten gill: I think I crossed sinen gill at about 303283 where there is a trod which takes you round to roughten gill. Aim to cross roughten gill at just above stream junction 311279 then dead reckon the summit from there.

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Looks like an interesting route, too late to reccie now, but would I need water wings tonight on the Gill crossings:D :eek:

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Originally Posted by Chas

Why not continue the logic of staying on good tracks and follow the track to the Guide Stone at 292279 and there turn left to cross the bridge over Glenderaterra Beck, still on a good track, turning off it at the bridge over Roughten Gill at 298276 where you can pick up trods up the south side of Roughten Gill to about 308278 from where you dead reckon to the ridge path half way between Gategill Fell top and the summit
see http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Polylin...7nwy&encType=1

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You lose far too much height before you cross that way: almost 300 feet and it probably adds another 600m to the route, which between them will add 7-9 minutes back at a guess, but it might be worth a try some day.

One of the keys to my route is that it avoids losing the height at the caldew crossing, and this route crosses the beck at the heighest possible place.

Whilst I only saw snippets of it because I was dead reckoning , I also think there is a trod from skiddaw house to the crossing of roughten gill for blencathra more or less on the route i took. ( which is below the pile of stones I mentioned) next time I do this I will follow that track to see where it goes.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Looks like an interesting route, too late to reccie now, but would I need water wings tonight on the Gill crossings:D :eek:

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I reckon the caldew may be fun tonight too!
Roughten gill is a trickle compared to the caldew!

Good luck all.

2 weeks to go and i've got all the route choices sorted in my head apart from one...

I'm still torn between going up Fairfield via the track behind Grisedale Tarn and the out and back climb/descent - or - the zig-zags down then going up via the Tarn outflow and the trod going towards Cofa Pike.

One is further with less climbing and on good paths. The other is more direct and on good paths down and reasonable trods up.

I'll be doing this in the dark by the way.

I've done both, but only the more direct route in the dark. My gut instinct is to take the wider, more runnable descent and traverse around the tarn. It also has no nav issues, esp when you leave the top of Fairfield as you return the way you came!

Still not sure.

Any thoughts?!

ST

I think the best advice I can give is to have good pacers that know the route and let them choose what they think is the best route on the day. On my round, although I knew the route very well I just went with the flow and handed route choices over to my pacers. We took at least 4 different lines to those i had used before and it added to the fun. Our line up Red Pike left of the main track in fact gained 6 minutes on schedule.
Hope you round goes well and enjoy the day.

Want to start do some recces through the rest of summer and into next winter.

A couple of questions which have partly been covered before but I'm still not sure of the general consensus;

i) Not being a confident down-scrambler, is it feasible to drop off Doddick ridge rather than Hall's Fell ridge? Certainly would seem more runnable in places just adds a little bit of distance at the bottom.

ii) Scafell!! Reckon that trying to get up Broad Stand would take more out of me than it's worth! Is Foxes Tarn considered the ONLY alternative at the moment because of the precarious rock in Lords Rake?

iii) Yewbarrow - don't fancy the scramble down Stirrup Crag. I've read about the grassy rake off to the left. Is this after the main summit or do you have to double back to find it?

iv) Robinson -so the accepted route is to follow the ridge all the way down to High Snab farm? Is it not worth dropping down earlier, just after the rocky step?

Any advice welcomed :)

I think Doddick is a much better bet than Hall's fell, especially in the dark and when the rock is greasy.