Yes and do you know why? Because the authorities of China were preventing the Chinese people from trading freely, which they had no right to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
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Yes and do you know why? Because the authorities of China were preventing the Chinese people from trading freely, which they had no right to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
Trading freely in drugs?
Yes of course. I recognise any adult's right(legal, not moral) to put in their body what ever they want. I also recognise their right not to force the consequences of that choice onto others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
It's not an informed choice though, it is what capitalism is about - it exploits peoples' desperation, like people who drink Coca - cola or eat McDonald's. The people who make it know it's cheap shit and don't give a toss that people are addicted to it. There will always be the layer at the bottom of the pyramid whose only function is to spend money in the direction of the top of the pyramid. That is capitalism. And it's wrong , morally wrong.
nope noodlesQuote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
christopher you know full well the authorities in china have always done what they bloody well want , they still are.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Yep pete i understand what your saying about your NI payments for health care, but what your paying for is in fact a private letter or certificate. Its seen as extra to NHS work. But again the UKA card is a valid competition licence for european (EU) countries.
Sorry but I had to bite, even though its off topic! Christopher I'm much more a capitalist than a socialist but you seem to look at fell running, life and politics in an extraordinarily black and white way.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
To say that the 100 years following the Napoleonic War was a success (down to capitalism :confused:), due to its lack of a singular world war is utter bollocks. I'd say that directly and indirectly capitalism led to all sorts of misery.
The Irish potato famine cost what 750,000 deaths alone. The industrial revolution did tons of damage too (read Charles Dickens). On top of that without really thinking too hard there were Afghan wars, the opium wars, the Crimean war, the Indian Mutiny, the American Civil War, the Franco-Prussian wars, the Zulu wars, the Boer war.... and so on. I suspect that capitalism was a route cause in much of all that but, there again, had socialists, fascists, communists or any other 'ist' or 'ism' been in the ascendancy it would still have happened one way or the other anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost
Indeed.
It would be illuminating if posters had to declare their occupation before slandering those in others.
Why some of you guys are probably just estate agents-in addition to Christopher Leigh that is.
You can't blame the Industrial Revolution for Charles Dickens, and anyway he's not that bad.
:D
Just a shout out for the NHS.
Following my tumble at Ilam on Sunday I attended at Whitworth Minor Injuries Unit at 5pm. Was on a bed having my wounds cleaned within 10 minutes and left 80 mins later glued, steristripped and bandaged. An excellent service.
Yesterday evening attended at Buxton MIU where one of my wounds was re-dressed. In and out within 45 min. Again excellent.
Both above were without appointment.
This morning phoned my GP surgery at 8.30 for an appointment with a doctor, totally unrelated to above, and was given a choice of 10.00 or 15.10 today. Went for 10.00 and had a frank, sympathetic and encouraging 20 minutes with a very professional female GP.
No tut tutting when I told her I run and cycle at 61, in fact the opposite, she emphasised the importance of fitness into old age, but to try not to fall over!
Maybe my experience is not the norm and that I am fortunate to live in a ruralish area where the pressure on the system is not as great as in urban areas.
I did see a notice that said the surgery had 3,220 appointments in the previous month of which there were 102 no shows. Too many but I am sure that in some places the no shows will be higher.
This is good to hear - thank you for sharing - wish it was more like this round here because this is not my experience over the last few years. When I phone the surgery the receptionist, who are always very nice, tell me there are not enough doctors and it's approx 3 weeks wait for an appointment.
I realise I had a bit of a rant about this on another thread and I should temper it a bit because I did have an excellent experience at a NHS service in Leeds a few months ago, staff were really cool, professional and they sorted me out no problem!
Postcode lottery?
Same here in south wales DM...a minimum 3 week wait for GP appointment. Really not good enough. But if it was abused carefully its probably demand outstripping supply. And that demand is not always realistic. Prescription charges had to be introduced 4 years after birth of NHS because explosion of drugs available threatened to break the business model. It seems to me that an appointment fee to see the GP may now be needed for similar reasons.
Abused?? Should have been analysed!
Regarding medical forms for competing abroad. My Gp refuses to have anything to do with them , never mind charging. I have a minor heart condition so it's problematic , however my consultant was kind enough to fill on in for me to run in Italy. Then the basted organisers didn't even ask for it.. Will have to examine the EA option. Seems to depend on the country, Italian and French race organisers seem very hot on it, Scandinavian countries ( for orienteering) less so. Been a while since I've been mind so might have changed.
That's interesting Wheeze, I guess it would have to be one fee per month or some other limit?
Would't want to make the people who are severely ill pay for more appointments, that would be a bit mean.
I'm not sure though, as I understand it the problem is that doctors are going abroad or taking private sector jobs because of the conditions of working in the NHS in the UK as a GP are so bad.
I would much rather fix the problems than try and fix the symptoms ;)
I think the people who work in the NHS are amazing, I think it's the systems that are broken and this is where my criticisms are aimed.
Why are private companies providing essential goods and services at vastly inflated prices to the NHS for example - it's this kind of corruption that needs to be stopped.
I realise these things I have said are purely anecdotal, but I don't think they are wrong.
Any fee-to-see would obviously be means tested and linked to status of illness. Much like a disability badge. Any 'free' system is open to abuse but, currently, the level of abuse overwhelms the genuine need. Certainly a problem that needs fixing is how people access the system. Talk to any GP and they will tell you of the unrelenting tide of needless consultations that hinder tackling genuine problems. Personal abuse and real physical threat are daily stresses. Who would want to work like that?
All good Wheeze :)
I have a lot to say on these subjects, but I think some of it might be a bit hard? I don't know, I will make some tentative statements and hope they are taken in the spirit they are intended and that is looking and speaking honestly and asking challenging questions.
Abusing the system: Perhaps there's a deeper problem here? If someone is using up GP appointments for needless consultations, the question is 'why?' Loneliness? Attention seeking? Hypochondria? Mental illness? All of these are still health issues are they not? Perhaps instead of complaining about people turning up for needless appointments the docs (or society in general?) should be identifying the problem and helping these folk overcome their insecurities or whatever it is. Ideally they no longer feel the need to 'go see the doc', this has to be better than restricting access because they are seen as abusers of the system and leaving them out in the cold? I know that these issues may not seem serious, or just a waste of time, and other people may be more worthy(?) of attention, but I strongly suspect that they are precursors to more serious conditions. See what I mean?
To take this idea further, what constitutes a valid reason to visit the doctor? Is there a point at which a person should take responsibility for their own health? Or to take it to an extreme to illustrate the point, should people be able to do what they want and then expect/hope for health care services to fix them up again?
An obvious example is drinking, should someone who is teetotal get preferential treatment over someone who is a chronic alcoholic? Is there a scale? This sounds ridiculous when written down like this, but I am told that this attitude is very real in some cases.
A much more subtle example, should someone who eats natural foods they cook themselves be given preferential treatment to someone who eats processed foods, takeaways, etc.? I believe a lot of ailments are caused by poor diet, I have a bit of a thing about this.
Fundamentally, I think everyone should be treated equally, but I understand that due to pressures this is sometimes not the case. In effect it is triage, why waste time on someone who is clearly on a self destruct mission.
Personal abuse and real physical threat: Same as above really, but much more serious, the people who do this are not well despite how common it is and how much this behaviour is encouraged in modern society. They are in the right place and seeking help - perhaps just not in the right way? Perhaps, help these people instead of penalising them? I agree that no one should have to work under those conditions, but this is the tip of the iceberg. Some of the stories my friends have told me about their experiences in mental health care would make your toes curl!
I know these are really tough questions, I don't expect any answers per se, perhaps it's just food for thought.
They are not tough, just realistic. The scenarios you describe are real, appropriate and discussed ad infinitum by the medical community. But they are just one side of the coin. On the other side are people who are simply tw**s, who have an overbearing attitude to their rights and to hell with their responsibilities and who won't listen to good advise but then expect 'someone' to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong.
Being a GP is like having the sword of Damocles hanging over you.....sifting out the folks that need help from those that don't is a challenging task. One wrong choice and you are hung out to dry!
Loneliness? Attention seeking? Hypochondria? Mental illness?
All important issues to the individual but how on earth is a GP supposed to address or even detect those in a 10 minute consulation?
Yes, okay, I can see that.
And I sometimes pick up on a little anxiety when I see a Doctor, especially if I start asking difficult questions (not being a dick, just wanting answers like we all do, you know) or suggest something that doesn't fit in with the guidelines. I can sense them being careful, perhaps overly so.
Doctors, or medical staff in general, should not be subject to prosecution unless they intentionally cause harm, they should be allowed to make genuine mistakes, we are human after all. Repeated negligence is another aspect, and well, same goes for any job, if you repeatedly show you don't have the skills and don't make an effort to acquire them, there's really only one way it can go.
Re. how to deal with complex issues, yes, good question; the only thing that I can think of off the top of my head is some kind of monitoring, so if a patient has an appointment and the doctor thinks it was a waste of time they could make a note to that effect. Once a patient gets say 3 notes of that kind the situation is reviewed and if appropriate a referral made to look into it deeper and the onus to deal with the wasted appointments is removed from the GP's surgery. I would hope this would be done from a compassionate care perspective of course.
Doctors already refer patients, so it would just be a kind of 'broader picture' version of that, and if someone is identified as lonely, for example, then they could be presented with various options that the wider society offers.
I do like to dream up, what I think would be, ideal scenarios - maybe one day - we can live in hope :)
Having had a week of strange pains and discomfort in my stomach area I phoned my GP surgery first thing this morning for advice. At 1030 a GP rang me back and after a chat asked me, to my surprise, if I could attend the surgery at 3.45.
I then went out for my walk, the pain/discomfort being no worse or better with exercise.
I attended at 3.45 and after examination was prescribed a course of Omeprazole and told to book an appointment for blood tests, with the nurse, at reception. When doing this the receptionist told me the first available appointment was on the 19th of Jan, ten days away. Whether it was the look on my face, I don't know, but she said "is it urgent?". At the same time the GP appeared in reception for his next patient who apparently hadn't turned up. I said to him " excuse me doctor but are my bloods urgent".
He had a quick chat to the receptionist and then asked me to follow him. I then went back into his room and after a bit of too and froing he took a full set of bloods. He said that it was too late in the day for the courier service so as he lived in digs at the Royal Chesterfield Hospital he would drop them off in the lab on his way home. (He must be a Locum/Trainee GP). He told me to ring the surgery for results on Tuesday.
What fantastic NHS service.
Since getting home I have two things on my mind.
1. I hope he remembers to drop them off.
2. Have I something more serious than he has let on.
Anyway he told me to keep up with my exercise which is what I shall do, and if I get pulled by Derbyshire Police ...........
:D You'll be al'rite lad as long as you haven't got a packet of pork scratchings about your person, or similar to indicate an evil intent of having a 'picnic'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
Seriously though, hope it's all OK
Hope all is ok. I have had very good personal experience with our local surgery (Baslow) and Chesterfield Royal.
Nice to hear stories like this amid all this gloom. Keep taking the pills, and I hope you're feeling better soon. :)
Good to hear stories like this, our local surgery is fantastic and I've never heard a word against it, you obviously have a similar helpful one.
Normally it is only the negatives that are heard.
An update.
Having seen my GP last Friday I had a text on Monday to say that my blood pathology was fine and no action required.
This morning the postman has delivered an appointment for me to attend Chesterfield Royal Hospital for an Abdominal Ultrasound Scan on this Saturday the 16th.
Hospitals are not one of the places to be visiting at present but I shall be attending and am extremely grateful that the NHS is still open for business.
I still have discomfort in my stomach but have only been taking the pills for 5 days. I am hoping that the promptness of the scan is because the radiology department is quiet, due to people being reluctant to visit their GP, rather than something serious going on.
I had an MRI scan at Chesterfield on a Sunday morning a few weeks ago, very quiet and well organised, felt very safe. I know from friends that the hospital is in fact very busy in some areas.
My breathing has not been right for a while and before a race I find myself having to do an increasingly faster and longer warm up in order to get a decent getaway from the start line. Once I get going my breathing is fine.
I have also developed a cough and lost nearly a stone in weight in the last 3 months. I don't think cutting out a few biscuits and cake with a brew should account for it.
Just in case something some thing sinister might be going on I decided to phone my GP surgery at 8am this morning.
After a 5 minute wait in the queue I spoke to a receptionist and to my surprise was offered an appointment at 9.15.
The GP, a chap in his 30's, who looked a bit of a sportsman himself, was very understanding of my concerns and complimentary of my fitness. After checking my BP he listened to my breathing and did that tapping thing on my back and chest with his fingers. He said everything seemed fine but suggested further investigation. After telling me the proposed plan of action he the sent the referral details to my phone for me to make the relevant appointments.
I now have blood tests back at the surgery this afternoon, a chest X-ray in the local cottage hospital tomorrow and an appointment in the "Lung Service" department in Royal Chesterfield Hospital on Monday.
I am extremely impressed with the level of service. Did I, by chance, just drop on a very good GP? Who knows.
It has crossed my mind that the speediness in getting these appointments is because the GP suspects that I have something going on that needs looking at sharpish but that is tempered by the fact that it was me that actually made the appointments.
The NHS seems to be working in my neck of the woods.
It's good to hear the good as well as the bad stories. I hope the tests give you a clean bill of health LB.
Have to say our GPs practice is faultless, same day appointments often and certainly by the next day, brilliant service for the years we have been here. But once you leave the surgery and head towards a hospital the system can be less than perfect!
We can only dream of service like that around here; last time my mother (in her mid 80s) tried to make an appointment it took eight weeks to get an appointment, with any doctor at any time. I can't remember the number of phone calls and attempts to book online (which never worked) but it was a considerable number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
I also haven't forgotten when I was isolating after having major surgery in 2020, either. The hospital told me to isolate for two weeks, as the death rate for people who had had surgery like me and caught Covid-19 immediately afterwards was over 35 percent. The problem was that the dressing needed inspecting and changing. When I phoned up to make an appointment with a nurse, and not a doctor, they flatly refused - so I had to queue-up in a waiting room at a hospital. That is how much that practice values its patients lives.
I don't think it will surprise anyone that the first thing I did when well enough was register with another GP practice. I don't know if they're any better, as I haven't seen a doctor, but I take the view that they can't be as bad.
A friend up the road caught flu a week ago, after several days in bed she phoned the GP who immediately had her ambulanced to hospital (she has an underlying heart condition) and that is where the NHS grinds to a halt. She has pneumonia and was in quite a bad way, on intravenous antibiotics etc.
She has a bed for the night and during the day is turfed out to sit in a chair (still connected to a drip) all day whilst the bed is used for others.
Trying to get her back to local cottage hospital and home asap where we can look after her properly. Currently Mrs Mole is sorting out all her washing and cleaning the house, others walking her dogs and someone else visiting in hospital - how rural communitie help each other.
Whilst sitting out of bed during the day when in hospital is a good idea if people are up to it - less muscle wasting, a lower risk of clots in the legs, a lower likelihood of needing rehabilitation prior to discharge - to have somebody else use her bed during the day is weird. If that person is ill enough to need a bed during the day, they will also need a bed for the night. And if they don't need to stay overnight, why are they not dealt with in a chair?Quote:
Originally Posted by molehill
Best wishes to your friend.
Thanks Mike, I believe they are simply short of beds etc. so heaven knows what is happening, patients being shunted around but by all accounts the situation has been pretty poor. But hear this all the time from the Welsh hospitals. Apparently she took a turn for the worse yesterday with a further bad infection, hope she has a full time bed now but everyone is very concerned.
I finally saw a NHS consultant for a long running hip injury today. Nothing so severe that I need an op but a steroid injection should hopefully calm things down. If not a new MRI. This is good news and another great thing about the NHS when you finally get seen.
Conversely, I have had both an MRI and orthopaedic consultation privately and advised to stop running.
Today's consultation, although not entirely contradictory, indicated a different prognosis.
I'll live with that.
Interesting to see. Since I reached 60 I never seem to have been away from the GP surgery and/or getting referred to hospital. They mean well and it's good to get checked out, even if it shows there is nothing seriously wrong. They have picked up on some things that they think might be abnormal, which in reality might be normal for a distance runner for many years, such as when taking readings of the resting pulse rate and blood pressure. However, it's better being checked out and no further action required than not being checked out and something serious happens later on.