Quote Originally Posted by Grouse View Post
What is the alternative to a socialist system or a mixed economy though - naked capitalism and free markets amount to misery for millions, what ever you say there are people at the bottom of the pile who cannot drag themselves out of the shit and whose only function is as consumers to line the pockets of the rich. I believe they should be aided by the state and am happy to pay taxes to see this done;of course I know no welfare system would ever be perfect and I would like to see for example a public transport that is not run for the profit of shareholders or anybody else, but that is subsideised by taxes. I think we need this more than ever and I don't think capitalism is going to save us from the abyss we are staring into, in fact I think it is largely the cause of it. I think our political system is the result of capitalism and it is there to serve Mammon. Think what this contry would be like if it wasn't for the reforms of the 19th century etc. - these weren't given but had to be fought for. Do you think people were wrong to fight for reforms which limited the degree to which capitalism exploited people,
and to fight for the National Health Service and the welfare state?
So because they can't drag themselves out of the s*** the rest of us should suffer?

All the misrepresentations of capitalism have come from Leftist socialists. Anyone who wants to know the truth of the socialist vs capitalism argument only have to look to history.

After the Napoleonic wars around 1815 to the first world war 100 years later, capitalism led to the longest period without a major world war. It wasn't a pure capitalism but they didn't have the controls we have now.

Today most countries are either completely socialist or are dominated by socialism and look at the state of the world.

Now you say the ones at the bottom of the pile are only there to 'line the pockets of the rich,' but how is that possible when those at the bottom don't work.

What I think was wrong was for our people in 1945 to vote in a system of government that we'd just spent 6 years fighting against(fascism). The only difference between Hitler and Brown is Hitler believed in robbing and murdering his own people, Brown just robs his.