10,000ft a week

I think the 10,000ft "target" is more of an indicator of the amount of work/effort you need to put in rather than something you must achieve at all costs.

Different people need to do different things to get into shape, there's no one size fits all training regime.

Most fell runners don't spend a lot of time actually running/racing - looking at last year's Ennerdale race results (one of the longest actual fell races) , most finished in under 6 hours, i.e. a quarter of the time you are likely to be out on a BGR. Most races are far shorter than the Ennerdale.

There's little point doing 100 miles a week if they are all along the canal bank so some ascent/descent is required. I probably averaged 5000ft and around 25miles/week when training for my BGR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merrylegs

Cheers Ian, i'm planning some long walk/runs round home if it's not possible to get up to the lakes, would like to do a 24 hour training session round here just to see how i react to it, i know i can keep going for 17 hours as i did that at the Fellsman. Obviously the climb won't be as much, but the challenge of being on the go for 24 is lodged firmly in the head then;)

---

Dean (Ultra Marathon Man) once said or words to the effect on how he managed to run for 200miles:

(Not got my book to hand so this is from memory)

"The limits on the human body are reached after about 50 mils, if you can run for 50 miles and take on food you can run 100, if you can 100 why not 200? its all in your head the muscles will keep going whilst ever your head tells them to do so."

If you can do 17 hours Steve then you can do 24:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emmilou

but that's the best bit!;)

---

true but the track down to Honister pass is very tough on tired legs, theres nothing really hard on the last leg apart from the last Plummet down to the track but you can do that on your bum....:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Dean (Ultra Marathon Man) once said or words to the effect on how he managed to run for 200miles:

(Not got my book to hand so this is from memory)

"The limits on the human body are reached after about 50 mils, if you can run for 50 miles and take on food you can run 100, if you can 100 why not 200? its all in your head the muscles will keep going whilst ever your head tells them to do so."

If you can do 17 hours Steve then you can do 24:D

---

Got both books by Dean Karnazes, very inspirational and down to earth.
'Keep going, run when you can, walk if you have to, crawl if you must---just never give up.'
Simples as that meerkat chappy on tv says.
Reckon i'll be reet Ian, i'm a stubborn old plodder;)

Calderdale Way - 49.7 miles with 8,514 ft according to the LWDA.

Would make a cracking training run mezza!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al Fowler

Calderdale Way - 49.7 miles with 8,514 ft according to the LWDA.

Would make a cracking training run mezza!

---

Plans are afoot with a mate of mine to have a crack at this Al;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merrylegs

Plans are afoot with a mate of mine to have a crack at this Al;)

---

Good man.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merrylegs

Plans are afoot with a mate of mine to have a crack at this Al;)

---

I was thinking of having a go at this in 2010, & Derby Tup showed signs of interest too. I think it'd be around 11 hours for me. Can't fit it in until late July though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Splatcher

I was thinking of having a go at this in 2010, & Derby Tup showed signs of interest too. I think it'd be around 11 hours for me. Can't fit it in until late July though.

---

Keep me posted Splatcher please ;)

Don't worry Al, plans are afoot for all kinds of long days in early 2010. Keep an eye on Recce section if you fancy a double Marsden Edale or PPP headtorcher ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Keep me posted Splatcher please ;)

---

Will do DT. I haven't got a proper gap between races until 24 July. Then we're into school holidays, so until we've decided what we're doing for our family summer hols I can't fix a date for the CW. Earliest 24 July, latest 22 August though.

Planning Tan Hill to Kirkstone for 2 May though...

Pendle way is similar distance/ascent to Calderdale I think too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Splatcher

Will do DT. I haven't got a proper gap between races until 24 July. Then we're into school holidays, so until we've decided what we're doing for our family summer hols I can't fix a date for the CW. Earliest 24 July, latest 22 August though.

Planning Tan Hill to Kirkstone for 2 May though...

---

I did the CW this summer (see http://www.justgiving.com/jasonstevens/).
I really enjoyed the challenge - keep me posted if you plan to do it. I'd be happy to run some of it again (or provide you with tips/support.)
Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crowhill

I did the CW this summer (see http://www.justgiving.com/jasonstevens/).
I really enjoyed the challenge - keep me posted if you plan to do it. I'd be happy to run some of it again (or provide you with tips/support.)
Cheers.

---

Will do: I'll post something once I've got a date set, or pinned down the alternatives. I've walked the CW in the distant past, & I'll probably be running unsupported. The more the merrier for all of part of it. Only thing I really need to sort out is whether there's enough water around. Some parts should be OK, e.g. around Stoodley Pike, but a lot of it's not going to have safe streams. There ought to be taps at farms etc, but I need to locate them. Any tips on this would be useful.

Should I?
2011?
If I can do the Pyrenees this summer (ok walking) then why not?

I've always said no, I'm too rubbish at descending - dodgy knees don't help.
But this is giving me inspiration. Bob's log is not that much faster than what I do and so many of my friends have said that I could do it (they have). We'll see what the next few months brings as I get more intense training in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GordonS

Should I?
2011?
If I can do the Pyrenees this summer (ok walking) then why not?

I've always said no, I'm too rubbish at descending - dodgy knees don't help.
But this is giving me inspiration. Bob's log is not that much faster than what I do and so many of my friends have said that I could do it (they have). We'll see what the next few months brings as I get more intense training in.

---

Read your blog Gordon, you should, you can, Billy Bland walked it, ok he's Billy Bland, but your you, if your friends think you can, have a go, they'll support you as will many others;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merrylegs

would like to do a 24 hour training session round here just to see how i react to it, i know i can keep going for 17 hours as i did that at the Fellsman. Obviously the climb won't be as much, but the challenge of being on the go for 24 is lodged firmly in the head then;)

---

Steve

I would think carefully before you do this.

If you coped with the Fellsman, which you did, then you will manage the full 23/24 hours with no problem in my view.

Its nice to leave something to the imagination; that's not bad planning, its part of the challenge.

If you do decide on this, do it early in the year to give decent recovery time. Moving over any kind of ground for 24 hours is a shock to the system and will take recovery time.

A better plan I feel would be to do say a Lakes 40 miler, but make sure you go through the night to experience those 4.00 am blues when the body, however well trained, screams for sleep.

I think you make a couple of very good points Morgan. I know everyone is different and merry seems to thrive on high mileage but I find anything over say eight hours and I get very tired and recovery takes a long time. I won't be looking to do more than ten to twelve hours I think and then only probably once

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BGSec

Steve

I would think carefully before you do this.

If you coped with the Fellsman, which you did, then you will manage the full 23/24 hours with no problem in my view.

Its nice to leave something to the imagination; that's not bad planning, its part of the challenge.

If you do decide on this, do it early in the year to give decent recovery time. Moving over any kind of ground for 24 hours is a shock to the system and will take recovery time.

A better plan I feel would be to do say a Lakes 40 miler, but make sure you go through the night to experience those 4.00 am blues when the body, however well trained, screams for sleep.

---

Thanks for the advice Morgan,

I will take it on board, may be getting a bit over ambitious:o
Might just do a few 12 hour run/walks. 40 plus Lakeland miles sounds good, had them 4.00 am blues many times working shifts for 14 years, every 3 weeks i'd go 24 hours or more without sleep doing a physical job and running or cycling to work.

Advice greatly appreciated though, do tend to get carried away sometimes;)

as I've been thinking idly about a BGR next year, I was thinking that training could peak by running both halves of the route on consecutive days - maybe a month before the date. Is that a typical plan?

i.e. 2 x 12-hr runs - or more like 10 hrs each hopefully!

is that leaving too much to chance, in terms of knowing you can go for more than 20 hours at a time?

Somebody once suggested to me 'two legs on three occasions' was good prep, but I suppose in reality that could translate as doing 1 and 2, and 4 and 5, with leg 3 on its own. I know someone who frequently ran 12 hours during his prep - after a while he had to extend his routes to maintain the same time on his feet. I know someone else who never ran more than 2 hours and only came along as a pacer for leg 1 and 2 but who carried on (when the original contender dropped out before Dunmail) and got round in style! I suppose its whatever works for you, but I haven't found my solution yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BGSec

A better plan I feel would be to do say a Lakes 40 miler, but make sure you go through the night to experience those 4.00 am blues when the body, however well trained, screams for sleep.

---

isn't this one of the things you're best-off leaving to the imagination!? :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo

as I've been thinking idly about a BGR next year, I was thinking that training could peak by running both halves of the route on consecutive days - maybe a month before the date. Is that a typical plan?

i.e. 2 x 12-hr runs - or more like 10 hrs each hopefully!

is that leaving too much to chance, in terms of knowing you can go for more than 20 hours at a time?

---

iirc when half-a-Bob a day for two days was mentioned before the thinking was it wouldn't be much easier if at all than a complete 24hr round

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby Tup

iirc when half-a-Bob a day for two days was mentioned before the thinking was it wouldn't be much easier if at all than a complete 24hr round

---

you'd wake up bloody stiff for day two wouldn't you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo

you'd wake up bloody stiff for day two wouldn't you

---

First climb on second day could be a bit tough :eek:

as someone who will have far to travel to get ascent in the legs and learn the route, I'm thinking I'd do well to combine the two at every opportunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby Tup

iirc when half-a-Bob a day for two days was mentioned before the thinking was it wouldn't be much easier if at all than a complete 24hr round

---

I agree and if you aren't used to the ascent/descent it'll take you a long time to recover, time that would be better spent getting fitter for the main attempt ;)

There really is no need at all to practise doing 24 hours or even 12.
All you need to do is go long enough and hard enough to hit a rotten patch (feeling sick and knackered).
Next you have to keep going until you come through it.
Once you know the feeling and that it passes, realise also that you may hit more than one rotten patch, then you are set.

In training these bad patches came for me at something over 5 hours.
Most I ever did in one day, or one weekend was about 8 hours, these came 10, 8 and 6 weeks before the big day.

Particluarly if you cannot get to the fells regularly, suddenly hitting yourself with 2 big big days in the fells will simply destroy you.
I think you need to get to the Lakes, familiarity with the task will give you confidence, which is the main thing you need. Training over the relevant terrain is also a massive benefit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andy k

There really is no need at all to practise doing 24 hours or even 12.
All you need to do is go long enough and hard enough to hit a rotten patch (feeling sick and knackered).
Next you have to keep going until you come through it.
Once you know the feeling and that it passes, realise also that you may hit more than one rotten patch, then you are set.

In training these bad patches came for me at something over 5 hours.
Most I ever did in one day, or one weekend was about 8 hours, these came 10, 8 and 6 weeks before the big day.

Particluarly if you cannot get to the fells regularly, suddenly hitting yourself with 2 big big days in the fells will simply destroy you.
I think you need to get to the Lakes, familiarity with the task will give you confidence, which is the main thing you need. Training over the relevant terrain is also a massive benefit.

---

Interesting reading Andy, my training for the Fellsman was mostly a few 6 hour runs with one run of 8 hours in which i covered 40 miles. On the actual day i felt good all the way round apart from the last 3 miles when we hit the road, couldn't run as my ankles we're paining me. Never got that sick feeling and managed to eat for all 17 hours, felt knackered a few times but always seem to be able to push through it.
Must review my training, don't want to do too much and knacker myself for the actual day, the 24 hour idea has gone now!!!!
The thing that helps my confidence is everytime i run in the lakes i feel inspired, love the area, only had one bad run there, Duddon Valley this year, just been made redundant, still had the Fellsman in my legs and had a few too many Guinness's the night before. It was a red hot day and went through a few rotten patches but still got round.

Agreed, preparing in the Lakes is a total joy, getting to know the fells and how they change, is a tremendous experience. (though it was also rather nice to run a totally different Lakes route come October ;-) ).
My history with Lakes Classics is abysmal - Thankfully this had no impact on my confidence in the run up to the BG. The crux for me came 3 or 4 weeks ahead when from a previously being daunted by the prospect of climbing out of Dunmail up to Steel Fell, my head just switched to looking forward to it - legs one and 2 would just be the preliminary, from Dunmail the real fun would start. A great feeling.

Forgive me if this has already been covered but for followers of the 10,000ft thinking, how many weeks did you do with this amount of climb? And when did you start in relation to your round? Thanks! :)

Call me a cynic on the need for 10,000 feet a week BGR training. For a start surely its the steep stuff that you should be concentrating on - I'd say that doing 3 Whernsides or two Robinsons a week (the verticle way), which is I guess a total 4 or 5,000 feet, would be far more useful than running say 6 Ingleboroughs which is maybe 10,000 feet. I have a little run near home that climbs all told 1500 feet but a 1000 of that climb is easy and very runnable - the bit I always hurt on is the 500 feet up the side of high hill!

For my summer round (late June) I started biulding up the climbing in Jan and reached 10,000 in early march. From there on i did 10-15,000 most weeks, with the odd week of doing a little less to rest and a few more bigger weeks during May (inc the Fellsman). This seemed to work.

For winter, I had a better starting base of fitness so went straight into 10,000+ in early august for a mid-december round. I averaged 14,000' a week from august to dec, but i was not working and could fit more in.

So, about four months of 10,000' a week plus climbing for me in both cases.

Whilst the amount of climbing increased slightly throughout these periods, the proportion done on the 'big day' in each week went up. the emphasis changed from lots of outings of 1500-3500' to big days of 8000' plus, with more rest days. I think this helps prepare your fitness and your head.

I did the 10000ft a week thing from Feb through May for my 2008 round, with a couple of week long breaks thrown in. Worked for me. I didn't make it in 2007, for several reasons but the main one being I had trained for running and not steep ascents/descents.

10000ft a week was done in 2 sessions of about 3hr, repping Win Hill from Yorkshire Bridge.

I did a few other races, runs, recces etc and odd bits of cycling, rowing machine etc, but the backbone of it was the 10000ft a week.

I wrote up my training & prep notes, I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything but I had a remarkably drama-and-pain free round in 23:45, pm me if you are interested and I will forward them (same goes for anyone else). Most of it is sensible advice distilled from other successful BG numbers.

Stevers

Thanks Stevers and Swiss Toni. Your experiences are very useful :)

Was just interested to see how the BG-hopies are getting on with their training.

How much miles/feet are you all clocking up?




P.S I dont know if hopies is a word but i thought it sounded good.

30ml / 5000ft most weeks since end Nov. Went out a lot in the snow mind including several headtorchers. I'm not a high-mileage man and did a 41hour walk off less than most folk would do for PPP

30-40m/7-10,000ft since last June, had three weeks off running sept/oct with shin injury but still got out on bike. Being jobless over xmas knocked the stuffing out of me for 2 weeks so two 20m/5000ft but back on track now;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al Fowler

Was just interested to see how the BG-hopies are getting on with their training.

How much miles/feet are you all clocking up?




P.S I dont know if hopies is a word but i thought it sounded good.

---

about 800ft at the moment :o

Not on BG training, but I'm in and around 10,000ft per week.

Good effort gents!

I seem to remember somewhere on this thread (or maybe another) there was talk of squats with weights being a good gym exercise, especially for strengthening the descending muscles. That right? Anything else?

I'm trying to compensate a bit for lack of time in the hills this winter and get my legs in shape for some long days.