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Some people are perfecvtly happy to spout offensive abuse to people to their faces
You must know my wife.
Well I think it is a shame that Henry Portman feels that he has to remove himself from the forum.
Basically a few people totally slammed him and said he wasn't allowed to express his opinion. What is that all about?
As to saying he shouldn't be allowed to speak becuase he isn't in the cozy club of having 2000+ posts, how ridiculous.
Antisocial - i think your long winded posts are to cover up the fact that you actually thought about HP's comments and felt guilty that you regularly use gayness as an insult.
Have just posted elsewhere that I am confident after rooting around that HP, Beeb (he of "mental health losing the plot")and Norbert Dentresangle are of the same author and this person is a particularly peverse and you might say, advanced wind-up merchant.
Personally ham glad he's off and as to removing himself etc etc, well that's just another blatant and oft used manipulators tactic.
In my opinion for what that's worth (not yet been paid) this forum collectively and it's members individually are well sound - no matter how hard they may try to portray themselves!
I was waiting for this, took much longer than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by millipede
Firstly I would argue that I use gayness as an "insult", nor do I find merry and Stolly comments especially offensive or think they are homophobic (despite the great fun I have winding them up) but they can easily be construed as such, same as" Al's French comments" , happy to discuss face to face if I ever get that promised pint from you:)
The main issue and what I have been using this thread and the comments made by Merry et al for behind the scenes and part of HP's point (which his original point made me seriously think about, including the stuff I post on) , is that young people and possibly children read this stuff or have access to it and potentially may only take the comments written at face value. As we have a junior thread mixed in with all the other threads access to the other threads is very easy.
I think people should be entitled to say what they want on the forum (and accept the consequences) but to do that do we need to separate elements of the forum from certain user groups? Or do we put in a code of conduct so everyone can read and contribute using appropriate language on appropriate themes.
The FRA promotes itself as a family organisation that encourages children to be involved etc and as an ageing population they will increasingly be looking to grow their membership base, also as a voluntary organisation working with families it has child protection responsibilities which it seems to be ignoring by allowing open access to some of the themes and comments explored. Would you want your children reading some of the stuff on here given all they see it cold type and do not know the irony, humour or have knowledge of what the correspondants are really like. I don't really think Stolly seriously advocates falsifying race entries or trespass but if you did not read between the lines would you know this?
Recently a 15 year and 16 old were posting pictures of semi clad women and a 16 year old was posting dirty jokes, this was encouraged and added to by adult posters, this is part of growing up but not everyone would be happy with their young people doing this on an open forum seemingly encouraged by adults.
Is the forum and by default the FRA (because the forum is an official arm of the organisation) holding itself up to potential criticism as an organisation that does not take child protection seriously if it does not either set standards that are adhered to or split access to the forum based on age so people can post what they want.
Not posting on this anymore, off to read Stolly's posts to see if I can find evidence that he steals pension cheques from old ladies (this is a joke Stolly):D
Of course I do; I'm a financial adviser - its my job :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Antisocial
If I was a betting man I'd bet that Antisocial either was involved or at least has knowledge thereofQuote:
Originally Posted by The Piglit
Agree with AntiSocial.
Most threads eventually degenerate at the hands of a few posters, who seem caught up in their own world. Fine no problem with that necessarily :), BUT, as he says this is a public forum, and the subtlety, irony, sarcasm, humour of some posts isn't obvious. So all postings give a perception of our sport to the outside world. (Check last year's OMM forum for just how many members of the public sought it out following the media sensationalism). Last April a junior Anniversary Waltz thread degenerated on the first page to the point that Wynn had to remind the adult posters they were on a junior section. The recent thread on international selection became libelous (imho).
I have been involved in junior fell running for 15+ years, and like many other activities and organisations it has the potential to shape young people's lives, and not just provide a run out on a hill every so often. There have been and continue to be enthusiastic posts by young runners wanting to understand organisational problems, distance constraints etc. If we don't encourage them, fell running will fade away as the average age of entrants continues to rise.
Increased child protection responsibilities are imminent in a sport, which by its very nature can't be tightly policed in terms of venue and access. I fully expect that the point will be reached where all marshals, officials, spectators on private land (?!) will have to be CRB checked thanks to our paranoid nanny/big brother state. The forum will have to reflect these responsibilities - quite how is another debate. An awareness of the wider context and self censoring by individual posters would be a good start.
That's the whole point isn't it. That HP was making, and no one was prepared to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antisocial
I understand that everyone JUMPED to slam HP because they know Merrylegs (either in real life or because they have talked to him for so long on here). They know that he is a great guy who isn't homophobic, wouldn't knowingly upset someone and is often the peace maker on the forum. I agree with all these opinions.
But Henry P might not have been reading the forum so long and not have such insight.
He rationally said that comments about gay men and tons of vaseline and not stooping down around certain men in showers are very old hat
.................and to an objective gay man reading the forum (young or not) could be taken as insulting and excluding.
I think the reactions of everyone else who contributed (towards HP) were even more excluding.
How worrying/sad/ridiculous. Fell running is, to many, an expression of freedom. As such, we should resist the creep of big brother with as much effort as would give to a big ascent. The least rules the better. That is the whole essence of the sport. The same applies (or should apply) to our forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by FellJunior
This whole debate has been bery helpful and insightful. If it helps just one poster to pause and think before they hit the submit button then it will have served its purpose...I support self-policing through awareness rising discussions like this. I will certainly think twice if I think what I might say would be read by a 13 year old.
Perhaps posters ages should appear as part of their forum status?
Its okay its impossible to police the internet. Its feasible for anyone to set up a forum for like minded individuals but, of course, while we're on one under the FRA banner it makes sense to fall in line with their wishes and the general consensus.
Given that any 'junior' can chat to his mates on facebook, bibo or MSN and use and be subject to whatever language is thrown their way, it seems ludicrious to expect this forum not to, within reason, at least reflect the broad range of humanity in all its guises (even including Antisocial :eek:;)). Equally you could argue that no child aged under 16 should be taken to a major sporting event - a man united vs liverpool game includes incredibly 'bad taste' and the 'odd' swear word from the supporters for example :D
I think everyone just needs to check that they haven't completely had sense of humour by-passes.
Yes, the contradiction between the freedom aspect of fell running and the growing requirements of duty of care for juniors is glaring. However, the government imposed bureaucracy via UKA has to be addressed regardless of whether it will be effective :( (reference: handgun legislation following Dunblane); the FRA Welfare Officer has an unenviable task.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
And so why is Anorak allowed to slag a minority because they choose to shoot grouse and Anorak doesn't?
I have no problem with people disgreeing with one another; Voltaire said "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "
However, when someone posts along the lines of "I dont like something...therefore it must be banned"...that is how totalitarianism starts.
I love philosophy and politics, me...
Barty
PS that is grouse the game bird..not Grouse the FRA Forumite
BartyQuote:
Originally Posted by Barty
I have no probs with people disagreeing with me, and accept that my view that we, as humans, don't have a divine right to kill other species because they get in our way or annoy us, will not be to everybody's liking.
If people want to hunt grouse, that is their decision, but I abhor it. I haven't made a personal attack on anyone for disagreeing with my viewpoint though!
Neither would I ask for a moderator to deal with anyone disagreeing with me. Had it got personal then, yes it would have been out of order.
...and we used to have so much fun on this forum!
Fair enough Anorak...
I appreciate it wasn't a direct personal attack and retract any implication that there may have been such an attack (please note, Mr Moderator)...the use of the T word by other poster(s) did not make for a conducive platform from which to discuss the pros and cons of the issue.
Whichever side of the issue we sit, anything to do with country sports/bloodsports is a potentially inflammatory "issue" and whilst fora are designed to be a forum for discussion and debate, there is a real danger that such discussion and debate becomes very heated and oaths epithets and general nastiness is let fly.
Whilst personal views must and should be expressed without let or hindrance, I very much hope that we must never lose sight of what Voltaire said....
Barty
PS These are my own views and not that of The Management...
Haven't got the time to read through this thread so can someone tell me if Scousers are still fair game or not?
Be Nice...the Lot Of You!!!!
Very, very thin ice given that a certain moderator was born in Anfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
Their mental age or their real age*:D:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
* I'am as old as Methuselah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bible
Stolly just hit the nail on the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Yes there will be children reading this forum but we shouldnt be cocooning them from what real life is really like.
I dont know what everyones experiences of high school was, but i for one know it was a bloody cruel place to be at times!!! bullying, bad launguage, sexual things, etc etc....everything gets talked about, said and done.....
Ok that doesnt mean here on the forum people should be allowed to say what ever they will, and i suppose you could say that what ever has been said could influence them........but this is the real world isnt it....the big wide world isnt a nice place and some people just seem to be trying to make it a nice lovely, cuddly place....im going to have to come back to this when i think of what the point is that im trying to say.:rolleyes:
So yes...maybe what has been said could offend people, but this is only the top of the iceburg with the internet and the world as a whole that people see, read and do.
But for a posative point that has come from this, it has made me think alot more before i post for what im saying incase it does upset anybody....and i think 99% of everyone on here has taken it all on board as well.
So you would shoot Anorak:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty
Always lift the loo seat up.
Thats a code of conduct at our house:rolleyes:
Oh, who who? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by david
I get shouted at if i forget to put the seat down at my grandmas!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Well put Al and good to see a young 'uns point of view. The problem is that us old 'uns are supposed to be setting an example so we have to think a bit about what we say and do in case we 'influence' others. It's something to do with the responsibility of age....(problem is, most of us have not really changed that much since our first day in the school playground!:D:o)Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
I've read this thread, and while I can't really understand what it's on about, I have some views on several of the issues. The following paragraphs reflect my thoughts after I've self-censored anything that might offend anyone:
If you're that concerned, then totally separate the junior forum or have an over 18s section only for the site.
While Al might be a young un' I don't think the issues on here were ever concerning someone his age but more concerned with 12-15 year olds. But typically its been blown out of all proportion......and I've little sympathy for anyone whinging about increasing interference or bureaucracy when the vast majority were content in a recent vote to tie themselves unequivocally to UKA...but then the chairman was equally content to give a steer in that direction.
If there's one thing certain to get under-18s interested in fell running topics, it's having an over-18s-only section on the forums. :D
So you would be OK at our's but your Grandma will have to go some where else:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
Oh well. Its all in the Down The Pub section and i think most under 16s are banned from the pub after 9. However i am 16. If an over 18 section did emerge i would certainly just create a new profile saying i was 18. I think the oldies are to worried. At school i hear and see a lot worse
I'm too old to worry about owt:pQuote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
Sometimes i think i'm too stupid to worry about enough.
Best way to be mate, KISS, keep it simple, stupid;)Quote:
Originally Posted by skennaugh
That's your choice but the fRA won't be liable for you doing, that which they could be know allowing you access to some of the material.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
Agree with Fell junior this is a nanny state issue essentially and is about keeping the forum functioning as well as a values issue. We can whinge all we like but there is guidance etc out there which in the case of children and young people we are better adhering to than not if you want to keep free and open speech on the forum - and yes I know that is a total contradiction.
To be honest i dont think it is a problem.
However if they did start vetting forum members due to age they would have to take other situations and circumstances into account and ban them from the forum. Its a lot of work for the mods but feel free
Its not about whether we perceive it being a problem or not Tom, its being clear what as national organisation the FRA is seen as liable and responsible for in safeguarding its membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
If you read my first post on this, you will see you finally agree with me, it took a while but welcome onboard :D (Will that do Brett?)Quote:
Originally Posted by millipede
Yes but i dont think it would be fair to alienate juniors without looking deeply into every single member of the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antisocial
I think some of the oldies have forgotten what it was like to be 15/16.
I used to hear a lot more filth then that I do now - 15/16 year olds are probably the least naive demographic in a wide range of areas.
I don't think there's been anything too bad on this forum anyway; we certainly don't need Mary Whitehouse (RIP) to come and sort things out.
Cheers. FHM arrived through my letter box on Saturday and that was a good moment and much more extreme than a few sexy pics of Holly Willoughby. Maybe we should just delete this thread, have a cup of tea and chillaxQuote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens