Fellsman

What a fantastic event.

I had a bad patch just before Dent - I really struggled in the head wind up to Great Coum and then my hip went on the run down to Dent but a cheese & onion roll, some beans and a couple of cups of tea seemed to perk me up. From there I just felt like I got stonger and was gutted to arrive at Park Rash to be told that we had to stop.

The organisers and checkpoint staff did a brilliant job of looking after everyone and making sure everyone was returned back to Threshfield safely.

Looks like I'll have to give it another go next year - knowing the British weather it will probably be red hot, with blazing sunshine and everyone will be retiring with heat and sun stoke!!!

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Originally Posted by Twinkletoes

Not sure about some of the times on the Felltrack link as it is showing me not getting to Fleetmoss until nearly 8pm, Igot there at 6.50 and got away before the grouping thing started...

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as stated at the top of the web page
"Times shown are not the entrant's arrival time but are the times that the information was input by the checkpoint."

the list can only really be used as a rough guide.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

The guys at Cray were brilliant by the way - they made a right fuss of me wrapping me in blankets and foil survival blankets and even gave me a hot water bottle. The race doctor happened to be there too and he gave me a good once over.

EDIT: Oh and well done Hes for completing her first (of many ;) ) Fellsman. Not just a normal Fellsman either but a Fellsman with nobs and a half on!

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Well done and good call Stolly, and of course top effort from Hes and all those who made it round or nearly made it round.
A bit shocked at the Hot water bottle!! not exactly the gold standard treatment for a hypothermic person.

Dry clothes, sleeping bag, shelter, warm sweet drink but NOT DIRECT HEAT TO THE BODY SURFACE! surprised the doc didn't take it away how ever well meaning it was. Part of the process of Hypothermia is to take your blood to the core to protect your vital organs(this is why H victims go white and lips go blue etc) applying direct heat will cause the warm blood from your core to come to your skin flooding your core with colder blood and can put you in to shock.

I'm sure forumite DATT won't mind me mentioning that after falling in a deep bog on bleaklow during a Tankys Trog Race he got very cold and like Stolly made the good call to pack it in. He got himself to the Snake Inn where he called for a lift. in the mean time a cold Datt sat in front of the roaring fire where according to the bar staff he went a very strange colour! and they ran out to the MR parked in the carpark, Luckily it had a paramedic and a doc on board who took him away from the fire and put him in a cas bag BUT he was close to S3 Hypothermia and they were on the verge of calling in an Air ambulance. Warm Slowly not quickly!

Good to hear you are ok Stolly :)

I've long thought that we ought to have a thread on treatment of Hypothermia. It's probably the biggest problem we can face in the mountains.

Good call there Ian... would be easy to make it a "Sticky" thread at the top general Fellrunning Issues?

To act as a reminder wouldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by AlanB

Just picking up on this point from P161 of this thread - like AndyA I'm quite shocked about this comment. Do we not think that point 6c in the rules is there for a reason ??

"Failing to maintain compact groups ... will result in disqualification of the WHOLE group"

Yes, the conditions on Gt Whernside and Buckden Pike were desperate and yes, we all felt way too cold but that's no need to leave one member of the team 30+ minutes behind. Like AndyA I ran with a Petzl Tikka (mine was probably the brightest in our group !) and it was perfectly adequate.

I don't understand why they inforce the kit checks so rigorously when something like this is overlooked. Compact groups should be mandatory, sorry - it's for the safety of ALL competitors and not just those who have got some life in their legs.

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Why do you say this is overlooked? The rules are clear, they say that all group members should be in sight and sound of each other. We can't tell what happens between checkpoints, but we would disqualify all group members if this came to our attention, as the rules say.

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Originally Posted by Twinkletoes

Not sure about some of the times on the Felltrack link as it is showing me not getting to Fleetmoss until nearly 8pm, Igot there at 6.50 and got away before the grouping thing started...

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The times shown are the time that the scores message was input, not the time you actually arrived. This time is recorded on paper, but not transmitted unless we need to dig deeper. This system is for tracking purposes, not for results. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by AlanB

Just picking up on this point from P161 of this thread - like AndyA I'm quite shocked about this comment. Do we not think that point 6c in the rules is there for a reason ??

"Failing to maintain compact groups ... will result in disqualification of the WHOLE group"

Yes, the conditions on Gt Whernside and Buckden Pike were desperate and yes, we all felt way too cold but that's no need to leave one member of the team 30+ minutes behind. Like AndyA I ran with a Petzl Tikka (mine was probably the brightest in our group !) and it was perfectly adequate.

I don't understand why they inforce the kit checks so rigorously when something like this is overlooked. Compact groups should be mandatory, sorry - it's for the safety of ALL competitors and not just those who have got some life in their legs.

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I actually had an Alpkit Gamma; it's still a cheap torch but better than a Tikka. It's absolutely fine for what I'd call 'handrail' navigation; plenty of walls and fences to follow. I wouldn't fancy my chances with a proper night O event, need something like a Vision2 for that stuff.

I agree that perhaps the purpose of the grouping needs to be reinforced, maybe each group needs a preworded briefing read to them when they are grouped. It only needs to be 20-30 seconds long but it needs to be delivered with force! I have heard of groups getting verbal warnings at checkpoints for being too spread out so the organisers are on the case.

Generally I was extremely impressed with the event, having never done it before. The big queue for kit check was a pain but after that everything was well organised and seemed to run pretty smoothly. The hot showers were superb, as was the hot brekkie!

I suspect that the (relatively) benign weather during the day caused the main problem. Runners tend to dress for the conditions at the start, not for the finish, plenty will have had inadequately thick layers for an exhausted walk through a 2deg+windchill night section. I don't think the date change makes any difference; two weeks is nothing and think what it was like in March, we would have needed sunblock!

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Oh and well done Hes for completing her first (of many ;) ) Fellsman. Not just a normal Fellsman either but a Fellsman with nobs and a half on!

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LOL, what's a normal Fellsman?

I thought that too and we arrived together. Mind you it makes us look superhuman in the time it took us to get to Cray! ;)

Edit: Just read the rest of the posts and can see why the times are different. Mind you, I think we still made it across to Cray in good time even though we set off an hour earlier! :)

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Originally Posted by Twinkletoes

Not sure about some of the times on the Felltrack link as it is showing me not getting to Fleetmoss until nearly 8pm, Igot there at 6.50 and got away before the grouping thing started...

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Originally Posted by protodoc

Bad luck Stolly, sensible decision though. Hopefully we can all learn from your report.

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Sensible decision retiring, but it sounds as if bad luck had nothing to do with it. More like poor pace judgment, poor food intake (which I wrote about earlier but was largely ignored), and poor kit management amongst others. By taking personal responsibility and managing these factors I did not suffer any of Stolly's hardships and completed the event.

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Originally Posted by Dog Breath

Sensible decision retiring, but it sounds as if bad luck had nothing to do with it. More like poor pace judgment, poor food intake (which I wrote about earlier but was largely ignored), and poor kit management amongst others. By taking personal responsibility and managing these factors I did not suffer any of Stolly's hardships and completed the event.

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Haha. Thank you for you input :D

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Originally Posted by thedatastream

Sorry to hear you pulled out mate, it was nice to chat to you on the way down from Ingleborough. You weren't making bad time but carrying on with that injury would not have been big or clever bearing the conditions in mind. Still look, they got our best side - http://www.sportsunday.co.uk/fellsman-10401#photo lol

Walked from Dent with and got grouped with cefn_dave of this parish and what a nice chap he is too. Draughted a strong team over Fleet Moss which made things much easier than they could have been. Saw friends who were at the Snaizeholme checkpoint which was a boost. We got withdrawn upon reaching Cray at 3:30am. Lots of hypothermic cases there. One of our group lost his sight almost totally on the approach to Hell Gap so I had to walk him hand in hand the nearly 2 miles down into Cray. Was gutted I couldn't carry on as I was feeling OK. Still had a great time - hope folk from our team and everyone else are OK.

JP

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JP thanks for your kind comments,hope you got home OK.You were flat out on sports hall floor when i left.Great job leading the man off the hill.I'm sure that after a warm up we would have made it to the finish.
Under very trying conditions,I thought the organisers/marshalls et al did a brilliant job,many thanks to you all.
We all need to bear in mind the comments on hypothermia and take appropriate measures,with 3 wool layers,a fleece and a waterproof,i was still pretty cold,i could have done better in the glove dept. one or two fingertips still a bit numb!
So whats the answer?Adopt,adapt,improve and, come back next year.
Am off to wash out the smelly kit i was made to leave outside last night!

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Originally Posted by Dog Breath

But the worst point was that 900 metres before Capplestone CP, we waited for him at the stile, and then continued to the CP. We were only walking and he should have been with us but wasn't, and we had to wait 30+ minutes in the freezing conditions before he materialised. We were all getting varying degrees of shudders while we were waiting. The CP staff just told him to get in their tent and sent us on our way. I eventually finished in 19:43 and was my slowest time for many years. I've just about thawed out, but blimey that was a cold one.

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I thought you had to be grouped all the way to Yarnbury for it to count as a completion?

As for the staying together as a group it is worrying in those sort of conditions - one member is freezing, has shot legs and is lagging behind whilst the others are freezing while they wait. Doomed if you do and doomed if you don't almost. I don't think you should have lost sight of him though - he could have just wandered off and, well, died!.

Ha ha, I thought this may get resurrected. I'm on my smartphone and should be working. Going to get told off in a minute. I know it's easy to misinterprete meanings on forums, so I'll try to explain later at lunch time when I can use the office internet

You do. I got my tally clipped twice at Yarnbury (apparently the second clip was for 'ungrouping') and the tally clipper told me that I was now officially ungrouped and could carry on alone...not on your life, I wasn't letting the others out of my sight and staggered about 10 foot behind them on the run into Grassington and managed to stay with them up the hill to Threshfield. We'll have to wait and see what DG is on about.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

I thought you had to be grouped all the way to Yarnbury for it to count as a completion?

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One year I did it, a lass we were with had a panic attack 40 minutes or so into Fleet Moss in the dark. We had to take her back to the checkpoint so she could drop out. That's why groups have to stay together - for the safety of all concerned! I would be surprised if anyone needs briefing on that very basic , and obvious, rule.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

A bit shocked at the Hot water bottle!! not exactly the gold standard treatment for a hypothermic person.

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Hey Ian, don't knock that hot water bottle :). I guess I had what I thought was the onset of hypothermia (clouded vision, difficulty speaking and feeling frozen to the core but not shivering) rather than the full on thing and withdrew from the race on the basis that I knew things could only get worse. (I think I was colder for instance that day of the blizzard over Bleaklow).

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Originally Posted by Hes

You do. I got my tally clipped twice at Yarnbury (apparently the second clip was for 'ungrouping') and the tally clipper told me that I was now officially ungrouped and could carry on alone...not on your life, I wasn't letting the others out of my sight and staggered about 10 foot behind them on the run into Grassington and managed to stay with them up the hill to Threshfield. We'll have to wait and see what DG is on about.

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Ah, I didn't realise that was what the second clipping was for. I knew that we would be ungrouped at Yarnbury but had already decided to stay with my group and let them finish just ahead of me; it was the least i could do after their expert navigation.

I could easily have been grouped with other newbies; I'm confident we would have got off the hill ok because I knew that section already but all the extra map and compass faffing would have added a lot of time.

As it turned out they all encouraged me to press on ahead so I legged it down the tarmac anyway!



p.s - My Legs Hurt - I'm thinking of getting one of those Jens Voight "Shut Up Legs" Tshirts from Stomach of Anger, just to wear after long races!

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Unfortunately though I lost my camera dropping down to Flinter's Gill and got side tracked reporting that to the Dent marshals

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Stolly, there is a message on the Fellsman Facebook page that your camera is safe.

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Originally Posted by dmd

Stolly, there is a message on the Fellsman Facebook page that your camera is safe.

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Thanks. Fantastic news :)

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Thanks. Fantastic news :)

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Brilliant. It must be several minutes since we had a photo of a sheepdog peering into the middle distance from the top of Pen Y Ghent on this here forum :closed:

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Well done and good call Stolly, and of course top effort from Hes and all those who made it round or nearly made it round.
A bit shocked at the Hot water bottle!! not exactly the gold standard treatment for a hypothermic person.

Dry clothes, sleeping bag, shelter, warm sweet drink but NOT DIRECT HEAT TO THE BODY SURFACE! surprised the doc didn't take it away how ever well meaning it was. Part of the process of Hypothermia is to take your blood to the core to protect your vital organs(this is why H victims go white and lips go blue etc) applying direct heat will cause the warm blood from your core to come to your skin flooding your core with colder blood and can put you in to shock.

I'm sure forumite DATT won't mind me mentioning that after falling in a deep bog on bleaklow during a Tankys Trog Race he got very cold and like Stolly made the good call to pack it in. He got himself to the Snake Inn where he called for a lift. in the mean time a cold Datt sat in front of the roaring fire where according to the bar staff he went a very strange colour! and they ran out to the MR parked in the carpark, Luckily it had a paramedic and a doc on board who took him away from the fire and put him in a cas bag BUT he was close to S3 Hypothermia and they were on the verge of calling in an Air ambulance. Warm Slowly not quickly!

Good to hear you are ok Stolly :)

I've long thought that we ought to have a thread on treatment of Hypothermia. It's probably the biggest problem we can face in the mountains.

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Excellent post Ian, I learnt something new from that. I was aware that direct heat was a no no, but had no idea why until you explained it (also explains some odd episodes after warming up after winter runs as well). I take it the idea is to get the body to heat itself up as much as is possible whilst keeping wrapped up etc, rather than warming the person up artificially (so to speak)?

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Brilliant. It must be several minutes since we had a photo of a sheepdog peering into the middle distance from the top of Pen Y Ghent on this here forum :closed:

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Haha. You (well when I say "you" I really mean I) can never have too many pictures of Harry. Nowadays I'm less likely to post them here though but make up in spades by posting millions of them on facebook. Lucky facebook friends eh?

Hi dmd - I have just joined the FRA forum to ask if you would be interested in a walker's perspective on this weekend's Fellsman RACE (strange, i thought it used to be a HIKE) and would allow me to contact you by email rather than clog up the FRA forum?

Interesting to read all the posts and have time for a good think. I don't think I was irresponsible setting off with a dodgy ankle as I had strapped it very solidly and as prepared to stop at an early road checkpoint if need be. If there had been a reserve list I would probably have give up my place- just in case. I do feel bad that I did not carry enough gear. I should have spent longer oputside on sat am in Threshfield to realise how chilly it was. It would be a pain for the organisers but the option of taking an extra layer or 2 to Ingleton and then throwing a small carrier bag in back of a van with our race number on it if we decided it was too much at 8.45 might be an option?
I tried to eat lots and still struggled to keep warm after dusk and I know that I relied on oters after grouping to make most/ all decisions. I need to buy and take some better gloves and should have been prepared to get my compass out and use it. Without them I would have either taken lots longer or had to bail out.
We also saw a group that we felt were not looking after each other and using the 'grouping' in the way it is intended to keep everyone safe. Fortunately there were two 'falling off the back' and they sort of looked out for each other. JUst so glad my group were supportive, caring and good to be with.

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Originally Posted by caroleengel

Hi dmd - I have just joined the FRA forum to ask if you would be interested in a walker's perspective on this weekend's Fellsman RACE (strange, i thought it used to be a HIKE) and would allow me to contact you by email rather than clog up the FRA forum?

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You should post here, it would be interesting to read a walkers perspective

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Originally Posted by caroleengel

Hi dmd - I have just joined the FRA forum to ask if you would be interested in a walker's perspective on this weekend's Fellsman RACE (strange, i thought it used to be a HIKE) and would allow me to contact you by email rather than clog up the FRA forum?

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I have PM'ed you with my email address. We stopped calling it a hike some years ago, but actually we don't call it a race either. It's the fellrunners that call it a race. We call it an event, and we have entrants rather than hikers.

I call it an 'epic adventure' now I'm safely home and I can't repeat what I would have called it when I was up at the summit of Great Whernside in the early hours of Sunday morning!:wink:

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Originally Posted by dmd

I have PM'ed you with my email address. We stopped calling it a hike some years ago, but actually we don't call it a race either. It's the fellrunners that call it a race. We call it an event, and we have entrants rather than hikers.

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I am currently nursing 2 swollen feet - must be due to the extreme cold and the length of time that they were so cold and numb? Anyway, if anyone came across a haglof smock coat back at Upper Wharfedale School, just past the finishing table then its mine. It is a very dark grey colour with bright green edging to it. it will also have a few smashed up bourbon biscuits in the pocket! I am going to e-mail the organisers too, although I realise they will have enough on at the moment, its still worth a shot.

Well done on getting round Cath. Bet it was good to get your own shower and real bed on Sat/ Sun night! I thought 'd crash out on SH floor and be tired enough but struggled to sleep.
My feet (mainly toes are also red, waxy and swollen- )
but then so is my ankle and about 8 inches up my L leg
at least my eyes are no longer red and bloodshot and I can see clearly again!
Things we do for pleasure hey

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Originally Posted by Twinkletoes

I am currently nursing 2 swollen feet - must be due to the extreme cold and the length of time that they were so cold and numb? Anyway, if anyone came across a haglof smock coat back at Upper Wharfedale School, just past the finishing table then its mine. It is a very dark grey colour with bright green edging to it. it will also have a few smashed up bourbon biscuits in the pocket! I am going to e-mail the organisers too, although I realise they will have enough on at the moment, its still worth a shot.

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If your on facebook it maybe worth asking their too lost property has turned up on their "page" already.

Great thank you I will have a look on facebook!

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Originally Posted by dmd

The access issues won't go away. It's doubtful that we'll ever be able to hold the event again in May.

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I aim to be back whenever...this is unfinished business!

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Originally Posted by dmd

Stolly, there is a message on the Fellsman Facebook page that your camera is safe.

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Sorry dmd I looked on facebook but couldn't see the message. Am I going blind maybe?

Great write up by BritNick in his blog.

Just read it. Brilliant write up, spot on! Nice one BritNick. He also gave me a good explanation of why I look like I have 'trout pout' and my top lip is peeling, I'd totally forgotten the constant streaming nose :w00t:

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Originally Posted by Tussockface

Great write up by BritNick in his blog.

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As a walker, I cannot understand why the Fellsman had to be canx. mid-walk. I was told it was the number of “incidents” – a broken ankle (could happen leaving your front door) and HYPOTHERMIA. It was a tad windy, it was a cold (very cold) wind, it WASN’T raining. So? This event takes place in the mountains (not the hills) and mountains deserve great respect. I obeyed the official kit list and, after checking the weather forecast, packed half as much again – winter, lined w/p trousers, an extra fleece, a neck warmer and three extra pairs of gloves and some ski-mittens – all I needed was the mittens. Once they were on, I could hold the cold metal LEDLaser in one hand and the Garmin Montana in the other. Warm as toast and spare clothing to boot in the sack. If you want some bad weather – try Scotland.

I was offered a last minute entry but sadly had to turn it down due to other commitments, I was disappointed at the time now it seems I had a lucky escape!
Well done to all those that competed...

Bring on summer :cool:

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Originally Posted by caroleengel

As a walker, I cannot understand why the Fellsman had to be canx. mid-walk.

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Unfortunately not everyone is as sensible as you. For many (walkers as well as runners, though the latter are perhaps more guilty) light weight takes precedence over fitness for purpose.
It's not new - there was a Mountain Trial many years ago when there was only one finisher, coincidentally the one who'd worn a waterproof.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Sorry dmd I looked on facebook but couldn't see the message. Am I going blind maybe?

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Maybe, it's one of the first signs of hypothermia.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/23059780048/
Search for Wayne Ogden.