You took the words right out of my mouth!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
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You took the words right out of my mouth!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
I think DT's was the best prediction for the season :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
I was talking about my prediction Stagger. Yours was pretty good :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Dont be so soft man...Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
I said most seasons.. thats not an average.. Moyes took over Everton were continually relegation battlers.. you basically took the average over his whole career at Everton..
yes Martinez has done well, with who's team? The one Moyes put together, Coleman, Baines,Jagielka, Howard, Osman, Distin.. Berkley..
And no, they actually arent that much more attractive to watch.. they scored something like 6 more goals.. over the last 2 years Everton had started playing better football, they did play better under martinez but not some collosal shift that is made out, its just people are taking what Myes did from day 1 as what he did his whole career..
He saved Everton.. He didnt do well at United but to suddenly right off Everton as a poor dross team saved by Martinez is grossly unfair.. despite what the everton fans make you believe..
He took a team who finished 6th and made them 5th... a position they have finished in the past.. Pulis took a team in for certain relegation and got them to mid table.. Poyet took a team looking almost certainly down and got them safe and took them to a cup final, Pelligrini won a a title and a cup... Rodgers took a team who had been 7th, didnt put in many new players and took them to the brink of the title... Bruce took Hull from the lower positions of the championship to safety when most thought they would struggle..
I wouldn't even put Martinez in the top 5 to be honest..
And no its not such a strong reaction I'm just saying your statistical comparisons are non-sensical. You compare like for like.. not a team who finished 5th with a team who were in relegation battles.. Early on Moyes had Everton up at 4th-6th but occassionally back down again, which was why it was so good Kenright stuck with him, but in the end Moyes consistently had them in the top 6... so yes over 5-10 years most seasons they were in those positions.. but the average would be dragged down by the variability early on when he tried to get them out of the bottom positions... do we have to go back to Modes and medians and means....
You were the one that started quoting statistics remember. So it's a bit rich to start complaining when somebody else uses them to prove you're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
And by the way I never wrote off Moyes' Everton as being a poor dross team saved by Martinez. Quite the reverse in fact. I would agree that Moyes did a very good job at Everton, that's the reason he got the job at Man Utd in the first place. So I think there was every expectation that Martinez wouldn't be able to maintain it and that cash strapped Everton might struggle and only achieve mid table at best this season.
But that didn't happen, they pushed on achieving a record points total in the Premiership. Martinez got the best out of the existing players already there plus some shrewd loan signings like Lukaku and Barry. They played more attractive football than the functional fare served up under Moyes - I wonder which the Everton fans prefer. They probably won't be able to maintain it but it's this season we're talking about and that's why I'd make Martinez manager of the season.
I'm with you Muddy, Martinez is an intelligent, astute man who is an asset to any club he manages, and is one of the few Premiership managers I admire and respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
He shuns sensationalist soundbites and playing the drama queen, and gets on with his job with quiet dignity.
Everton landed lucky securing his services.
Surely that's an argument that supports Muddy. He's achieved more with the same playersQuote:
Originally Posted by IainR
As it happens, I'm with you - I think Rodgers deserves it although his performance in the transfer market was pretty poor.
He's done slightly better, but it was a young team, Stones, Barkley, Coleman... all developed or signed under Moyes.. a team now a year older and add Lukaku..Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
I think Rodgers has slowly evolved the team player wise.. he wanted to give players a chance. Who would have thought Henderson would be the standout english midfielder, and his ban probably cost Liverpool the title as they missed him, especially against Palace..
Looks like Louis is confirmed..
No Muddy.. I said most years they got X points.. not an average, because I knew that included Moyes' early years.. and I disagree, the last season under Moyes they scored almost as many goals as under Martinez, I think it was 6 less..
And thats not a statistical summary..
Danbert.. he relegated Wigan.. And the loan signings will now be an issue, they need to replace Lukaku
I think Martinez did a good job, but players like Stones have been key, and they were signed under Moyes.. that's why Everton are still here, Cahill, Jagielka, Coleman, Stones, Baines.. picking up players from smaller teams and developing youth, the youth angle would have been a big factor in getting the United job...
Look at Coleman, Moyes signed him from Sligo as a 21 year old... Martinez is getting all the credit for the team 90% astutely constructed by Moyes..
Should be a piece of piss for Louis next season thenQuote:
Originally Posted by IainR