Coronavirus

So how may refugees live with you Gandhi?

Words are free, actions speak louder.

Hands up here, forget your views on the virus or refugees for a minute, but don’t you think Stagger is more than a little bit racist?

The trouble with this forum (I think), especially when discussing contentious issues, is that most forumites seem quite happy to put up with racist views (expressed fairly continuously you have to admit) so long as the person making the racist comments broadly supports their side of the argument. Surely it’s time to call out Stagger ffs!

Can you please justify without having ever met me how you justify your reasoning?

You appear to want to bully people who don't share your thoughts and opinions.

And how many people have you help?

You failed to answer that question.

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You appear to want to bully people who don't share your thoughts and opinions.

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They said that about me too. They might still think I am you....

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Originally Posted by Stagger

And how many people have you help?

You failed to answer that question.

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Haha and how many refugees have you personally helped expel?

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

So this poem, kind of well known nowadays I guess so feel free to yawn disinterestly if you’ve heard it all before, is not just a about the two ways people look at refugees but is also pretty representative of the massive split in U.K. society right now:

Refugees

They have no need of our help
So do not tell me
These haggard faces could belong to you or me
Should life have dealt a different hand
We need to see them for who they really are
Chancers and scroungers
Layabouts and loungers
With bombs up their sleeves
Cut-throats and thieves
They are not
Welcome here
We should make them
Go back to where they came from
They cannot
Share our food
Share our homes
Share our countries
Instead let us
Build a wall to keep them out
It is not okay to say
These are people just like us
A place should only belong to those who are born there
Do not be so stupid to think that
The world can be looked at another way

(now read from bottom to top)

So are you a top downer? Or a bottom upper?

It’s no coincidence to me that most brexiteers and Tory voters (and you can probably throw in anti face mask wearers and coronavirus deniers) are top downers ;)

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It's a cleverly constructed poem, but it really is a trap. It's framed as you have put it yourself as "the two ways people look at refugees" and it is not the case at all.

Are you for or against?

It is not so simple and clever poem as it is, it only divides.

I'm for process and fairness.

It seems to be starting again. Pick off Oracle. now Stagger? Same characters as well.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Haha and how many refugees have you personally helped expel?

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None!!

But answering a question with a question is not polite.

should really change name to

FELLBULLY

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

It's a cleverly constructed poem, but it really is a trap. It's framed as you have put it yourself as "the two ways people look at refugees" and it is not the case at all.

Are you for or against?

It is not so simple and clever poem as it is, it only divides.

I'm for process and fairness.

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I sort of agree with you - things aren’t that black or white for sure. But the way some people talk about immigrants is from the harshest point of view with the least care or understanding. More considered and rounded views on problems though just isn’t the way of a big chunk of society nowadays

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Originally Posted by Stagger

should really change name to

FELLBULLY

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Oh poor poor stagger now somehow trying to play the victim 🙄

No victim. Just facts, Honesty and ability to hold a debate even if I don't share other people's thoughts and views.

Adult mode

Honesty

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Not sure how we have gone down this route on the CV thread, but such is life on the FRA Forum :D

Immigration, like many other issues, is an issue that is very hard to argue against without being labelled a racist, a Little Englander, a Daily Mail reader, a Tommy Robinson sympathiser...
I'm not against immigration or migrants themselves, but I want a process in place and I want it managed effectively.
National borders are important.
We have a census every 10 year to help Government plan. In the last 2 decades we have had circa 6 million increase in UK population which is driven by migration, so almost 10,0000 for every parliamentary constituency.

We know that isn't evenly distributed. Scotland for example, according to the SNP has an emigration problem.

That means some areas really are under extensive pressure.

The current situation with 100s a day and almost entirely young single men, coming over in boats needs to be stopped. We have a contract given to Serco and 2 other companies to house these channel migrants and others like them getting in, and they are block booking complete hotels, and mostly large posh ones, as the expense of the taxpayer.

It's the legit way of making money from illegal people smuggling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyH8UxwTsUM

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The first paragraph sums it up.

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Originally Posted by Stagger

The first paragraph sums it up.

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Jesus Christ, the actual post when Stagger actually changed the actual subject!

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Originally Posted by Stagger

Always baffles me why they don't just tow them back and then sink the boat.

Frogs will be pissing there pants laughing. Probably even supplying the boats

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How do you moderate this sh!t?

Pack it in, or you can start your own forum with that idiot Oracle

The topic is coronavirus

In Turkey masks are worn in public places by most and by everyone in shop and on transport to stop the spread of the virus.

In Wales the advice is that you should try not to use the toilet if you meet a person from another household in their garden.

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

In Wales the advice is that you should try not to use the toilet if you meet a person from another household in their garden.

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Very interesting Dave after the moderator's post.

We followed all the mask rules in both airports and on the aircraft.

To give a little support to a struggle industry and help another country.

It was all done following government advice and guidance.

Stay safe in Wales please.

Thanks DT...just the right amount of bark!
As for coronavirus we have no option but to learn how to live WITH it. Just as we did with TB. That scourge (far, far worse in medical terms than this current plague) is still with us, just waiting for the right conditions to burst back with a vengeance. We've got to de-demonise covid as regards to a healthy young population but keep the vulnerable away from risk by insisting that they (and that includes me) persist with distancing, washing, masking etc etc. If not, on their own head be it. Its off to the plague hospital so that general hospitals are not overwhelmed.

Stagger, you are guilty of Efes posting! But you put the view of the man in the street. Nowt wrong with that. But dont forget, never wrestle with a pig in the mud, because the pig likes it!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Thanks DT...just the right amount of bark!

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His post should have suffered the same fate as my two posts.

If you can’t use their toilet, can you go in their compost heap? Bob Flowerdew used to recommend this on Gardeners Question Time as I recall.

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Originally Posted by Wetherby whaler

If you can’t use their toilet, can you go in their compost heap? Bob Flowerdew used to recommend this on Gardeners Question Time as I recall.

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I suppose that's OK for No.1s.....

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Stagger, you are guilty of Efes posting! But you put the view of the man in the street. Nowt wrong with that. But dont forget, never wrestle with a pig in the mud, because the pig likes it!

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Good advice Wheeze.

Its actually Tuborg Amber posting 5.2% ABV and goes down too well on a warm day. (There all bloody warm)

Folks over here are taking a more serious approach then the UK

Similar people but totally different levels of mask wearing.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

His post should have suffered the same fate as my two posts.

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Have I said owt wrong or have you been accused WP?

This is and always has been down the pub.

But if the schools open we might need to close for a period.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

His post should have suffered the same fate as my two posts.

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As was my post asking for a moderator to at least politely request Stagger to cease expressing such extreme views. This place is seemingly a joke - it’s okay to call somebody Gandhi and suggest the sinking of boats but it’s somehow inappropriate to call out what is (at the very least) borderline racism, all justified it seems on the daft basis that the subject of the thread wasn’t “racism” 🙄

Fellbeast....look at your comparative post numbers. Us long termers are guilty of knowing Stagger of old and, shall we say, tolerating his more Daily Mailish outbursts rather than taking exception to them. As a newbie, such outbursts obviously have a different and more pointed impact. As Stagger reminds us, we are "down the pub" where free and often ethanol fuelled outbursts can and do happen.Just like in the real world.

Put it this way. If you walked into a country pub you hadn't visited before and bar-stool regular was pontificating in a way you took exception to, would you immediately call him out? Brave person if you said yes!!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Fellbeast....look at your comparative post numbers. Us long termers are guilty of knowing Stagger of old and, shall we say, tolerating his more Daily Mailish outbursts rather than taking exception to them. As a newbie, such outbursts obviously have a different and more pointed impact. As Stagger reminds us, we are "down the pub" where free and often ethanol fuelled outbursts can and do happen.Just like in the real world.

Put it this way. If you walked into a country pub you hadn't visited before and bar-stool regular was pontificating in a way you took exception to, would you immediately call him out? Brave person if you said yes!!

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He should look at his post 1760 before he criticises others. It's Ok to take a pop based on someone's perfectly valid voting history.

It's also OK to mask shame someone. I know someone who had a panic attack in work last week because they had made face coverings mandatory, that person was the only one in work refusing on health grounds, the employer did not do an individual risk assessment which they should have and the employee was effectively bullied by colleagues and even managers.
Oi! Get your mask on.
One department even had an emergency meeting about the person.
The HSE actually have a template COVID risk assessment for employers and it makes it clear face coverings cannot be mandatory but employers should assist those who want to wear them.
If they are not careful, they could have a constructive dismissal case on their hands, and no defence. BUt the employee is loyal to the employer, so I can't see it happening.

But nevermind, let's group all mask averse people in as alt-right, anti refugee racists.

I was in Wales on saturday and barely anybody wearing masks in shops...

I had mine with me, but assumed that as nobody else was wearing, it's not compulsory like it is on this side of Offas Dyke?

Felt a bit silly for travelling over without finding out first!

Just been out for evening meal and while have a chat worked out approx 60% of people on the marina wore masks all the time except at the meal table.

100% in shops or no entry.

Same on transportation.

Even the younger ones don't flout the rules?

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barely anybody wearing masks in shops

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It's not compulsory in Wales yet, just on public transport.

FYI you can not also talk on the phone, sing, eat or read a newspaper whilst on public transport, either....

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

As was my post asking for a moderator to at least politely request Stagger to cease expressing such extreme views. This place is seemingly a joke - it’s okay to call somebody Gandhi and suggest the sinking of boats but it’s somehow inappropriate to call out what is (at the very least) borderline racism, all justified it seems on the daft basis that the subject of the thread wasn’t “racism” 🙄

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If I have spoken about you out of turn and genuinely offended you I will apologise.

I have though scrolled back to post 1726 when you popped up and said "Stagger thinks that"

Please don't offend me and I will behave in the same manner.

Adult should be able to tolerate each other even when they have different opinions.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

He should look at his post 1760 before he criticises others. It's Ok to take a pop based on someone's perfectly valid voting history.

It's also OK to mask shame someone. I know someone who had a panic attack in work last week because they had made face coverings mandatory, that person was the only one in work refusing on health grounds, the employer did not do an individual risk assessment which they should have and the employee was effectively bullied by colleagues and even managers.
Oi! Get your mask on.
One department even had an emergency meeting about the person.
The HSE actually have a template COVID risk assessment for employers and it makes it clear face coverings cannot be mandatory but employers should assist those who want to wear them.
If they are not careful, they could have a constructive dismissal case on their hands, and no defence. BUt the employee is loyal to the employer, so I can't see it happening.

But nevermind, let's group all mask averse people in as alt-right, anti refugee racists.

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Look one example of a panic attack doesn’t mean that everyone would ‘bully’ that person to wear a mask. The system is working pretty well overall with most people wearing masks when asked to. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not it’s broadly a good thing and more reassuring to most, rather than panic attack inducing. At the other end of the spectrum my daughter who is almost ful term pregnant and expecting a baby in the next two weeks was hassled for wearing a mask this morning by some ‘non-maskers’. Everything with covid is quite scary enough for her without people being twattish. Never-the-less I realise that those views aren’t the views of the majority. It’s really easy to use one extreme example, either end of the spectrum, to try and prove a point but in reality it’s the middle ground where the common sense is

I have no problem wearing a mask (all made from redundant race event T shirts} my favorite is my MANX Mountain Marathon mask which has raised a lot of smiles and been a great coversation starter.

In fact rather than just full facial cover (which I view as mark of respect to other folk)my paranoia is suggeting donning full body cover in the form of a MORPHSUIT or would that be going overboard;).

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Originally Posted by Travs

I was in Wales on saturday and barely anybody wearing masks in shops...

I had mine with me, but assumed that as nobody else was wearing, it's not compulsory like it is on this side of Offas Dyke?

Felt a bit silly for travelling over without finding out first!

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I'm heading West of Offa's Dyke for a few days tomorrow. So it's mask on for nearly 4 hours on the trains, but then freedom until I get the train back.

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

It's not compulsory in Wales yet, just on public transport.

FYI you can not also talk on the phone, sing, eat or read a newspaper whilst on public transport, either....

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Blimey, things must be serious if they are stopping people singing in Wales. :)

AnthonyKay that's quite a trip you're on..! 12 Munros today, then Wales tomorrow!

I think the 12 was Donnie not Anthony Travs ;)

Aaahh I see :o