Fellsman

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Originally Posted by Stolly

I found it really useful. First off there were a couple of brand new fence lines that weren't up there last time I was there. And secondly I was really pleased to easily find the quad bike tracks after Deepdale that take you down to the Middle Tongue checkpoint, especially in all that snow. And then, after that, our line from there to the Hell Gap to Cray track wasn't too bad either (despite me referring to it as heading 'west' when of course I meant east) :)

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Fair points. It's just that I've done a few snow/clagbound reccies of various routes and found that they don't help me recognise anything.
Knowing about the new fence leading to Deepdale is probably good info. Do you reckon that's the best feature to follow?
And nice one finding the quad tracks in the snow - that must be quite confidence inspiring.
What line did you take to the HellGap-Cray track?

And I agree with the "after that how bad can it be?" sentiment - good mental training.

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Originally Posted by MarkL

Fair points. It's just that I've done a few snow/clagbound reccies of various routes and found that they don't help me recognise anything.
Knowing about the new fence leading to Deepdale is probably good info. Do you reckon that's the best feature to follow?
And nice one finding the quad tracks in the snow - that must be quite confidence inspiring.
What line did you take to the HellGap-Cray track?

And I agree with the "after that how bad can it be?" sentiment - good mental training.

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Approaching Deepdale the way I did, that fenceline was great. I didn't trust it yesterday though and climbed over it but the fence followed me all the way to the wall crossing with the blue plastic cup. As for our line from the Middle Tongue CP it was the light blue line below (the map is courtesy of MartynP and the purple line was the line he's he'd garnered from runners previously I think).

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9...alehellgap.jpg

Cheers for that. I tried the purple line a couple of weeks ago. It felt OK but when I did the analysis it's a lot more climbing than the light blue line. I suspect that, coupled with the fact that the light blue line is possibly easier going makes it the preferable option.

Am going to follow 3 Bingley lads thats my plan !

Stolly - hows the snow? heading up for a Fellsman recce Saturday and a heads up on the conditions will be good? Cheers Kev

Blog is a good read!

The snow has virtually gone, apart from splodges up high. There will be snow off of the paths on the tops but nothing to worry about

Planning to leave Ingleton, heading down from Ingleborough to Hill Inn, onto Whernside, then maybe a longer stretch to Dent then back down the Craven Way track, Park Fell around Simon Fell heading back to start! Forecast looks like a good day ahead.

Cheers

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best line away from CP23 Capplestone Gate? I recce'd between Cray and Threshfield yesterday and from CP23 took the SW line down Conistone Turf Road - which I'm sure has many fans, this is a lovely grassy descent - then swung round to the E onto Bycliffe Road. Problem is, you then have to climb Kelber Gate before a stile then ESE across country to join the lane leading down to Yarnbury.

I have seen other variations that suggest an ESE line straight off Capplestone gate fopr about 600m (following the ridge) then heading South at approx the 450m contour down what looks like a fenceline, then the same cross-country bit before picking up the lane again. On the face of it, this would appear to be a much better line and avoid having to do that extra descent/climb. Any feedback gratefully received .... :)


Martyn

Attachment 6789

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Originally Posted by Martyn P

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best line away from CP23 Capplestone Gate? I recce'd between Cray and Threshfield yesterday and from CP23 took the SW line down Conistone Turf Road - which I'm sure has many fans, this is a lovely grassy descent - then swung round to the E onto Bycliffe Road. Problem is, you then have to climb Kelber Gate before a stile then ESE across country to join the lane leading down to Yarnbury.

I have seen other variations that suggest an ESE line straight off Capplestone gate fopr about 600m (following the ridge) then heading South at approx the 450m contour down what looks like a fenceline, then the same cross-country bit before picking up the lane again. On the face of it, this would appear to be a much better line and avoid having to do that extra descent/climb. Any feedback gratefully received .... :)


Martyn

Attachment 6789

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The purple line on your map is all good running. There's a little trod along the wall from the Capplestone checkpoint and the flat section as you head south before hitting the track is easy-running short turf. I recced it not so long ago and will definitely use that line on the day.

Yes I've gone the purple line way. I seem to remember the CP guys pointing us that way anyway :)

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Originally Posted by Martyn P

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best line away from CP23 Capplestone Gate? I recce'd between Cray and Threshfield yesterday and from CP23 took the SW line down Conistone Turf Road - which I'm sure has many fans, this is a lovely grassy descent - then swung round to the E onto Bycliffe Road. Problem is, you then have to climb Kelber Gate before a stile then ESE across country to join the lane leading down to Yarnbury.

I have seen other variations that suggest an ESE line straight off Capplestone gate fopr about 600m (following the ridge) then heading South at approx the 450m contour down what looks like a fenceline, then the same cross-country bit before picking up the lane again. On the face of it, this would appear to be a much better line and avoid having to do that extra descent/climb. Any feedback gratefully received .... :)


Martyn

Attachment 6789

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From memory, the purple line is the one you have to take. Details will be provided in the handbook.
I think it's marked once you leave the main track near Kelber.

OK chaps, thank you. I had a good squint back up that fenceline at the point where I joined the track just to the W of Seeds Hill and it looked good going. I'll probably check it out again before too long.

Did the above Saturday - good snowy tops and boggy patches.

Does the wall you cross at Great Coum to take the line to Flinter Gill CP have a stile? If so, missed this stile but took a line to the CP and picked up the track to Dent OK.

Following the Craven Way around Whernside - struggling to pick the best line to Blea Moor Trig point? Any thoughts?

Thanks Kev

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Originally Posted by fellrunner kev

Did the above Saturday - good snowy tops and boggy patches.

Does the wall you cross at Great Coum to take the line to Flinter Gill CP have a stile? If so, missed this stile but took a line to the CP and picked up the track to Dent OK.

Following the Craven Way around Whernside - struggling to pick the best line to Blea Moor Trig point? Any thoughts?

Thanks Kev

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There is a sort of stile on Great Coum - its at the wall inverted T junction here, although the real stile is on the other side

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/408...30219at060.png

As for the best line to Blea Moor, follow the Craven Way to the ruined building then more or less take a compass bearing line down through the swamp lands and up to the trig. There's usually a trod to the fence line on race day but, after the fence, its all about trudging a line.

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Originally Posted by Stolly

There is a sort of stile on Great Coum - its at the wall inverted T junction here, although the real stile is on the other side

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/408...30219at060.png

As for the best line to Blea Moor, follow the Craven Way to the ruined building then more or less take a compass bearing line down through the swamp lands and up to the trig. There's usually a trod to the fence line on race day but, after the fence, its all about trudging a line.

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To get to Blea Moor there's a slightly drier line with a little less climb if you leave the track at the ruin and bear left/north slightly to plass close to the wood.

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Originally Posted by Hank

To get to Blea Moor there's a slightly drier line with a little less climb if you leave the track at the ruin and bear left/north slightly to plass close to the wood.

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Yeah it loops around to the left but, to be honest, I prefer the straighter line

Took a run/treck out today up to Blea Moor, Stonehouse, Great Knoutberry, Redshaw, Sainzeholme, Dodd Fell then bearing down to Fleet Moss CP position - taking in a recce view over Fleet Moss. Can anyone advise if the wire fence you see as you hit fleet Moss is the southern line around this area that you follow back around in a 'U' to the point (right angle) just before Jeffrey Pot? Or is there a wall to pick up around this area?

Cold wind from the east up there today!

Kev

Hi all 1st time of doing this event and will only get the chance for a couple of recces what are the best routes for recces? Is there any one from the Sheffield are doing this event? and would be intrested in a car share to the event and for a couple of recces thanks

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Originally Posted by mountainboxer

Hi all 1st time of doing this event and will only get the chance for a couple of recces what are the best routes for recces?

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If you have limited time, your recce-ing should be targetted at the 'middle bit'(TM) of the Fellsman route. The first 17 or 18 miles to Great Coum mainly follows well worn trails (apart from the drop off of Whernside into Kingsdale) and even in poor visibility you should have other competitors to follow. The descent off of Great Coum is 'interesting' but if in doubt here you could do worse than head to the wall line (to the north/north east) and follow that down. Dent all the way to Cray is definitely worth recceing (probably Dent to Fleet Moss as one recce and Fleet Moss to Cray as another?) if you can whereas, unless you're a speed merchant ultra-er, after Cray you could take the view that it will be dark by then and you'll be teamed up on the actual night and thus able to leave the navigation to someone else :)

I know this is not in the vain of tops, but waterproof gloves. Will a pair of marigolds suffice? Obviously backed with thermal ones.

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Originally Posted by beaker

I know this is not in the vain of tops, but waterproof gloves. Will a pair of marigolds suffice? Obviously backed with thermal ones.

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Hmm, might be worth asking the organisers about that one!

You could look at some shell type mitts to go over your thermals; might be more acceptable to Fellsman kit checkers.

I'm doing PPP this year so will miss out on all the fun. 2012 was a blast for my first fellsman and I'll be back again. Trying not to leave it too long; the way things are going we'll need an army bergen for all the mandatory kit before long!

Was out yesterday (23,2,2013) to have a look at the Cray to Park Rash bit. I know what you are thinking "that's the easy bit". But I always have a wobble from the gate off Buckden to the Top Mere check point. Anyway, grim would be the word White out on top at about 11.00am.
Still happier now with the line.
I have done six fellsmens and I am around 20 - 22 hr mark and would echo Stollys point . Dent to Cray most benefit from recce.
"Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted" Wellington after battle of Waterloo.

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Originally Posted by beaker

Was out yesterday (23,2,2013) to have a look at the Cray to Park Rash bit. I know what you are thinking "that's the easy bit". But I always have a wobble from the gate off Buckden to the Top Mere check point. Anyway, grim would be the word White out on top at about 11.00am.
Still happier now with the line.
I have done six fellsmens and I am around 20 - 22 hr mark and would echo Stollys point . Dent to Cray most benefit from recce.
"Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted" Wellington after battle of Waterloo.

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I was out yesterday in the same area, did Fleet Moss through to Top Mere. You're right, it was a bit grim. Very cold. I saw some fresh mudclaw footprints going up to Hell Gap, so there was somebody else out there equally as mad!

anyone with experience of both got a ratio in mind for UTLD50 time to likely Fellsman time?

P

[QUOTES=Stolly;528547]If you have limited time, your recce-ing should be targetted at the 'middle bit'(TM) of the Fellsman route. The first 17 or 18 miles to Great Coum mainly follows well worn trails (apart from the drop off of Whernside into Kingsdale) and even in poor visibility you should have other competitors to follow. The descent off of Great Coum is 'interesting' but if in doubt here you could do worse than head to the wall line (to the north/north east) and follow that down. Dent all the way to Cray is definitely worth recceing (probably Dent to Fleet Moss as one recce and Fleet Moss to Cray as another?) if you can whereas, unless you're a speed merchant ultra-er, after Cray you could take the view that it will be dark by then and you'll be teamed up on the actual night and thus able to leave the navigation to someone else :)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the advice much appreciated

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Originally Posted by paulo

anyone with experience of both got a ratio in mind for UTLD50 time to likely Fellsman time?

P

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I dont think its easy to compare for various reasons. I did the Fellsman in 2011 in 22.5 hours due to being grouped with a moron. 2012 not a fair comparison for ob reasons! but i also did UTLD50 in 2012 in 12.49. The main differences i feel are-you arent grouped on L50, the going is far better underfoot (bridleways and not a bog or moss to be seen!).

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Originally Posted by are we nearly there yet?

I dont think its easy to compare for various reasons. I did the Fellsman in 2011 in 22.5 hours due to being grouped with a moron. 2012 not a fair comparison for ob reasons! but i also did UTLD50 in 2012 in 12.49. The main differences i feel are-you arent grouped on L50, the going is far better underfoot (bridleways and not a bog or moss to be seen!).

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What determines you group? Do you get put with the people around you so the higher up the field you are the stronger the runners youwill be put with

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Originally Posted by mountainboxer

What determines you group? Do you get put with the people around you so the higher up the field you are the stronger the runners youwill be put with

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Who's at the CP with you when its grouping time is what determines who you're with. 90% of the time it will mean that you're grouped up with others of similar fitness but there will also be runners who are completely shot :)

Last year I met a couple runners just before I got to Fleet Moss and we were going well and chatting so we decided not to hang around at the check point (it was just before we were due to be grouped) and pushed on together with the idea that we'd already have most of a group. Another guy joined us and we stuck with each other and presented ourselves as a group at the next check point and the organisers were fine with it. I'm very happy we did because Andy was an excellent navigator and he got us through the last few legs much quicker than if I'd tried to navigate it and that meant we were allowed to complete after the event got cancelled. With the exception of Andy, we all had wobbly moments at various points along the final stretch but we managed to rally each other to keep going.

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Originally Posted by are we nearly there yet?

I dont think its easy to compare for various reasons. I did the Fellsman in 2011 in 22.5 hours due to being grouped with a moron. 2012 not a fair comparison for ob reasons! but i also did UTLD50 in 2012 in 12.49. The main differences i feel are-you arent grouped on L50, the going is far better underfoot (bridleways and not a bog or moss to be seen!).

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Ta. Don't know how l'll cope if it's a moronophobic environment ;-)

We set off as a group of 3 in a scout team, on Whernside we aquired another 2 who had similar pace and importantly humour and dropping into Dent, decided this is us we will stick together, as we approached Redshaw where we would be grouped a couple came thundering from behind and begged us to include them 'as you are the only ones actually running' against our better judgement we agreed. leaving the checkpoint the man set off at such a pace we all worried, we neednt have-this was the only time he ran. the rest of the journey he 'fainted' threw himself feet first off peat hags into fleets moss, meaning we all had to literally drag him out lots of times, and approaching each checkpoint he rallied and decided that despite promising to retire? he had come to now and it would all be better. it wasnt, i eventually stopped speaking to him and told his fiance to seriously consider not marrying the muppet (im not good when tired and frustrated!) eventually he did retire at Cray. Its not easy coping with a moron at the best of times but throw in tiredness? i could have battered him! I checked the Lakeland 100 results the same year and saw he retired in that as well. So my top tip-be blunt about what you want from people around you, be realistic about the impact you are having on those around you, and try not to get grouped unless you have seen them in action for a good hour and think you are well matched!

Another piece of advice about grouping besides avoid the people one will not get on with is .
When as a group you are going to pass another group make sure you all get past, I have been in the situation were we over took another group and a member of our group through tiredness has tagged onto the end of that group meaning we had to find him prior to the next check point.
Also a group I was in grew as passed by others their tired members tagged onto our group.
They don't like this sort of thing at the check points.
On a positive you do meet some great people and all barriers are down so very little bull s*#¥ .

Just heard from Jez Bragg that he will not be running this year

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Originally Posted by protodoc

Just heard from Jez Bragg that he will not be running this year

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Pity, although I didn't really want to get grouped with him as I've heard he gets tired easily.

Anyone got the gpx file for the whole route thanks

Has anybody got their book/number through the post yet? My cheque was cashed ages ago...

The fleet moss southern route - is this generally more runnable on the north side or south side of the wall around to Jeffrey Pot. Looks like the northern side is best from what I can see on the maps. Also can someone clarify is this a fence line or wall line? Planning a recce of this on Thursday.

No book or number through for me yet.

I don't go to Jeffrey Pot following the southern line and there are times where I'm south side and parts when I'm north side of the wall. And its sometimes a fence in places. Hope that helps :D :)

I follow the broken fence to Jeffrey pot then follow the wall line to the wall t junction (blue cup still there as of 23/02/13)

then take a bearing to middle tongue skirting deepdale gill. Probably not the quickest but always been the easiest to navigate for me

Think a previous post outlined this and even included a pic of the blue cup...awwww

Cheers to Stolly and Fidaleo.

Did this recce yesterday - took the wall/fence from checkpoint 15. However took a bearing across easterly to the wall taking you to Oughtershaw Tarn fence, instead of going up to Jeffrey Pot line. Not bad running.

Managed to cross the Tarn OK but slowly! then up to Deepdale Haw. Blue cup still there! Up to the stile and east to the quad bike track heading south. Is this the track to checkpoint 16?

Think I went a bit to far south and lost height - climbing back up NE got caught out falling mid thigh deep in mossy bog! Think the best line is following the higher ridge line around over the broken wall then onto wall/fence to Gilbert Lane?

Any comments on this from anyone else's lines?