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Is fell running cramp different from all other sorts of cramp?
well seems like it is!! The cramp I get in the middle of the night after alcohol, has nothing to do with being fit for purpose or correct training?? something else is causing it. Likewise that chap who gave us the anecdote about working in tropical climes.....
I have to agree with the reverend on this, many times when I first wake in the morning my first movement of my calves brings on a big dose of cramp which does not go down well with the wife at 5am, tbh its becoming blooming irritating now.
Try stretching them just before you go to bed, then again BEFORE you get out of bed in the morning.
True, so if you find their advice convincing and it works for you, follow it. I'll stick with what experience has shown works for me. Though the comments about appropriate training make a lot of sense to me too so I've added some calf exercises to my training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
Anyone got any tips/advice for avoiding cramp during a marathon? I'm doing the Snowdonia Marathon on the 29th and suffered badly last year, hamstrings started tightening around mile 18 before finally cramping at 24.
I have read that starting too quickly is a major cause of later cramps. Could be correct as I did start too quickly last year, knew I'd overcooked it at 8 miles and was knackered at Beddgelert. Any advice greatly appreciated!
Cramp is a very complex thing and can be due to a number of causes. I've run about 10 marathons and only once had cramp - like yours it started late and ruined the last 3 miles. I'd not started too fast but have done in the past without getting cramp. I had done a heavy weekend of mountain racing only a week before so I put mine down to muscle fatigue.Quote:
Originally Posted by GregC
Dehydration and salt depletion are I think the most common cause but be cautious as over hydration can be deadly as can too an overdose of salts - the key here is about getting the right amount to replace what you're losing but not more. I use Nuun for fell races but have never used it in a road race.
Good luck, I hope you can get this sorted.
I think there is a thread about cramp somewhere in the health section.
I'll second the Nuun's tablets, never had cramp when i've used them. 3 Peaks Race, 3 Peaks Cyclocross, Lakeland 50 this year (very hot) suffered badly with cramp in the past and ended up walking like a monkey!
But experiment first as although I can use them post race I can't use them whilst running as they give me stomach cramps. I prefer to nibble on something like cheddars, for example, if I'm running long.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevefoster
Motto is trial and error see what works.
Good Motto Flopsy, a friend of mine uses salted peanuts, whatever works for oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
I think too much emphasis is put on cramp due to dehydration - yep you can certainly get cramp if you're dehydrated but you can also get it far more obviously if you're running too fast/far for your fitness level, if the hills in the race are harder than you're used to (a strong possibility I'd say in Snowdonia) or if you've done a daft last minute spike in your running just before the race (me at this years 3 peaks :) ).
Are we talking cramp in the torso or in the legs?
If it's legs, then I agree with Stolly. It's usually brought on by running outside your training, either in pace or distance (or both).
I was nowhere near as good as roadrunner, but my PB was 2:30 and I've done 27 marathons under 3 hours. I never took any food on board during a race and breakfast on race day would be one slice of toast and 2 cups of coffee. My food was already in my muscles, I reckon it's asking for trouble to divert blood to your stomach when racing at speed. It often makes me want to faint..
Neither did I use any sports drinks, I would just take water and, unless it was exceptionally hot, most of that would be thrown on my head and thighs to cool down externally. I suspect in most races I drank less than a pint and a half. Again what you need in the race should already be in your system. (AL fell races are quite different, there I certainly need both food and water in my stomach.)
The only cramp I suffered in 20 years of marathons was a stomach cramp in 1981 caused by swallowing water the wrong way and coughing violently. The ascent of Whernside in the 3Ps is a completely different matter, my calves always throw a little flutter up there, because I'm working outside my training.
Who said anything about running sub 2:30 marathons or racing at speed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad
I suspect that Snowdon wont be as warm as the 3p's, Run at a level you are comfortable with, don't eat too much if you havent trained yourself to eat. A good point by Roy about not eating, but only I think for sub 3 hours, 4 hours+ is a long time with out food, I'd at least take some gels etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevefoster
I did. Since the OP gave no indication of pace or time, I gave my experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopsy
I also said that slower and longer runs do need food and water.
I take dioralyte before a long race. in MDS I took this before and after and SIS REGO (or Nuun) while running. I didn't take the horrible salt tablets the French medics pushed at us every day. No cramp. Agree with Whernside in 3P - terrible calf cramp there last year but none this year - same regime of drinking / eating, salts as ever but I had done a helluva lot more steep hills - didn't get up any faster though - just less pain.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I've since found an article where it suggests that starting too fast is a major factor in later cramps. I suspect that I overdid it a bit, but also I didn't really do enough long runs before the race, hence why I ended up with hamstring cramps. I'll hope that starting slower will prevent it as my legs are no better trained due to injury.
The old rule of thumb for the marathon is that your collapse point (not literally collapse, but where your dreams expire in ignominious shame and frustration)) is at 3 times your daily average mileage.
In my experience I measured this over the 8 weeks prior to the race, based on a steady state of 30 mile a week background activity before stepping up for the event. I'd use my steady state, as opposed to racing, 10 mile pace as a marker.
I was generally under-trained and hoped to get to 21 to 24 miles on form before hanging on, so that's 7 or 8 miles a day on average. Throw in a 20 mile run and a rest day and some speed work and your weekly schedule should start to fall into place.
If you're any way short of that with an injury, then you must respect the distance and use the event as a useful training run for experience and enjoyment (which does rather predicate a seriously steady start). Good luck.