Little golf.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
I see, the worlds your oyster kinda thing then.
Printable View
Little golf.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
I see, the worlds your oyster kinda thing then.
pretty much :D;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
emmilou thanks for that - yes, I liked corniceman's post too! What you say re. climbing makes total sense and it's noted. I also probably know that I could jog along for 6-7 hours already. I've doubtless tended towards the long-distance undulating run cos they are so enjoyable (compared to hill reps ..).Quote:
Originally Posted by emmilou
One thing I have found that I'm no good at is doing two long runs on successive days at the weekend - it just wears me out. Ten steps into the second run I know I'm not going to enjoy it and that feeling remains throughout.
So I've promised myself that I'll do as big a day as possible on Saturday, have a few pints Saturday night, and a total rest Sunday. This is suiting me well at the moment! (I suppose it might change when I start spending long weekends up in the Lakes, as it would be shame to waste a day.)
Re. date: I had pencilled in late July on the basis that I wanted to give myself as much time as possible to join a club and / or meet people and support other attempts and get a support team together.
But I'm thinking that this should be achievable by late June so I might go for then. I certainly think I can reach the required fitness level by then - it was jsut the logistics that's been daunting me a bit.
I need to come to a definite decision on this though. :o
Don't forget that too Adrian. 28,000ft of ascent has 28,000ft of descent too. and those quads can take a trashing. not something you can train for on a step machineQuote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
June over JulyQuote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
less bracken, less humidity, more sunlight (just) and just in case you don't make it more time to get another attempt in:o
IanDarkPeak may I PM you with a question regards Dark Peak BG attempts as have no joy when emailing club in last week.
yes no problemQuote:
Originally Posted by tri-mind
Tell me who you emailed. I know he has been busy of late and it's not his main address so he may not have picked it up yet.
noted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Hi Guys
Im in a simmillar position as I live in a very flat area, the nearest decent hill to me is about 50 miles. I use the Incline treadmill weekly at the local leisure centre at full gradient for 2-3 hours working up to 4 hours closer to the event, plus long runs on the deep sands on the beach with weight. I also do an exercise where I place my back flat against a wall and slide down so I am in a right angled sitting position placing all my weight on my quads, usually for 3 sets of 5 mins, I tend to do this after the treadmill or a long run when the quads already feel trashed, this seems to help my downhill running, plus I do reps up and down a very very steep but short sea defence wall, really hits my quads and also some out of the seat sprinting on my mountain bike, this all seems to transfer over to hill runs in the highlands and the lakes. Last years Tmb, my strengths where the flats and downhill I would pass all those who had kicked my arse on the climbs, even the last descent into Cham I flew down passing around 40 runners, but saying that I have very strong quads, heavy in body so gravity helps out, but ascending I am slow, gravity kicks my butt!
So there are other ways you can get around training for descending, the only things missing from this type of training is the lack of building up the courage and confidence for fast descending and the rapid reflexes plus reading the ground skills you would develop from actual hill work.
where do you live Ronin. I occasionally run along the beach from Hornsea. I find running on sand builds strength similar to running through heavy peat
HA HA
Hornsea, Ian, theres where I live, do you often go to Hornsea?:)
When requiring brownie points and when there are no races!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
In laws live there and are well known in the area.
I'll send you a PM the next time I'm out that way
I've managed two back to back 10,000ft weeks all year plus a handful of 5 - 7,000fters. I've got a week in the Lakes next week but am limping around with what I suspect is a slight calf strain. My round might be a bit of a suffer-fest :rolleyes:
Enjoy your lakeland week mate, and stay positive.......................sez me:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Anyone help!! maybe its obvious and im being thick but...
Living in the flatlands of East Yorkshire, my weekly bgr and utmb training is hill reps up Flamborough Head lifeboat launch. A sea defence wall (very short, but very very steep) and the incline treadmill (very exciting) now the question is if I run 6 miles on the treadmill at a 15 degree angle what is my overall ascent in metres?
No idea, I don't do maths.....that's what my 11 year old son is for!!! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
However, I also live in a flat place, hey I could even contest your flatness as I don't have even have a very very steep short hill :( one thing though, I also had to use the 'dreadmill' for training, I didn't focus on distance though, I set it at the maximum incline and spent hours on the thing :( torturous and definatley good for mental preparation! 10,000ft a week is very good guide and one most contenders use as a base but a lot of it is also time on your feet. You may be able to do 6 miles very comfortably and in a good time - quicker than others say, but it's extending that time your out (or indoors in this case) you are climbing for. Not sure if that helps but thought I'd add my bit!
I'm VERY rusty but if you have a calculator with Sin-Cos etc you should be able to work it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
but If I remember correct Kms
9(Kms)x Sin 15= Height gain kms
So if I'm right and I can't guarantee that ;)
2.34 kms approx 2340m just over 7000ft.
It has been the best part of 28 years since I last did this so I hope it's correct.
Ian
I'm very impressed, Ian - having quite recently taught trigonometry to some of my students, I can confirm you're spot on here (give or take a rounding error, and assuming the machine measures the "uphill" distance run which would seem sensible - viz. the hypotenuse - rather than the horizontal distance) ... any objections to me using the example in the forthcoming test?!Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
WooHoo! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFlash
Yes I figured there wasn't much point working it any more accurately as running machine are notoriously inaccurate. Depends How they are looked after. We had 2 in the gym I used to go to and I could do 39.00 10k on one but never bested 40.30 on the other even though they were identical.
It took some digging around in my darkest memory to do it.
Glad to know I havent for got it all...
Cheers Ian, thats very helpfull and yes Green Flash of course you can use this example.
The small hill isnt really a hill just a manmade slope. The Dreadmill sessions I usually do are based on time rather than mileage, I try to get a minimum of 1.30 ina session once a week (which is supposed to be 6 miles) last year prepping for the utmb I built up to one 5 hour session a week (18 miles) of 15 degree incline torture, my feet would go numb and so would my brain lol
Running a gradient on a treadmill is a good platform to work from.
You also need to get terrain strength and skill.
Running the BG involves some easy ground but an awful lot of rough and uneven ground requiring uneven stride length and footfall, hard and soft, one stride flat next up a rock step.
Time in proper fell terrain is an important element.
An extract from my account of my BG reads
"off Blencathra I skip down whilst Jon and Bruce struggle, they don't have 60 hours in the fells behind them."
Jon and Bruce are fit guys, we had run comfortably together over leg one to Blencathra summit.
Also running up a treadmill doesn't train your legs for descending - and its the descending that will pull you apart.
I agree Andy, I get to the Lakes when I can, and am off to Skye for a fortnight next week, so will get out on average a minimum of 3 hours a day plus a couple of 12 hour days. While running at Home I often train on deep sand, rough terrain on the North York Moors.
Downhill running - in 2003 I had a failed attempt at the Bgr with Richard Askwith supporting me on leg 2, a month later I tried again to no avail, I found downhill was my weakness, so looked at ways to train these leg muscles while away from the fells, over years I found a routine which worked incredibly well for me, I already had very strong thigh muscles and big legs, just had to get them used to the constant pressure on them, the eye foot coordination, I had from years of martial arts, II can usually descend just as fast at the end of a 100 miler as at near the start and can usually read the ground well at a fast pace. UTMB last year after 42 hours and 9400metres of ascent I sprinted down the final long descent into Chamonix no problem and had also sped down tons of the descents throughout the race, people pass me on the ascents and I fly by them on the descents. I tend to use a sea defence wall, short but very steep, I use this for reps (usually an hour continously) and really hammer the quads, I also hold what I call a wall stance, take a position as if seated on a chair with feet together and my back straigth against the wall, this puts a huge amount of workload on the quads, I have built up to 10mins, directly after a treadmill session I hold it for 5mins, I do sessions on my mtb usually ride to work (30 mile round trip) I do them in an interval/fartlek way, ride for a certain amount of time, then get out of the seat, lean forward and go for it, I use clippys so concentrate on pulling my legs towards my upper body, work through the burn then return to a gentle ride. When I get to the Lakes/Highlands I get out on the hill as much as I can! My weakness is uphill speed, especially at a weight of 15.5 stone,
sounds like you've got that covered then. You know what you're doing.
Uphill speed - is not really a requirement just steady steady strength. all but the gentle climbs on the BG are for walking
Bumping this thread up as useful on front page.
One question. ( for now) is it best to do the 10k (more in the couple of months leading to my attempt) over a weekend and one hill rep session. Over do you count the recovery runs?
spen, I think most folk count anything. I even used to add in any hill-walking, but if we went out for say a walk in the Dales, I'd still try to walk uphill strongly. Generally people suggest that the bulk of your climb would be done in one session (or two over a weekend). Bearing in mind most legs are 6,000ft, then 10,000 ft isn't as much as it first seems
Derby Tub, We discussed this 10,000/week on another thread. I want to clarify how many weeks should I be doing this type of climbing before the ramp down?
There are various figures people look at for "mid-pack to mortals" ie runners who are half way down the race-results to nearer the bottom than the top: 10 to 12 weeks of 10,000 ft, 250,000ft of climb from New Year to BG, 100 hours on the high fells (iirc Splatcher came up with this and I think its a great marker). The 10,000 ft doesn't guarantee success but it gives someone who has it in them a good chance. I did a summary of what I did in 2011 and will look it up. I'm consistently around 60 to 70 % down the results of races but will shuffle up to half way or so in ultras
Total days in Lakes recceing: 13
Total hours on Lakeland fells: 70 (plus another 30-odd local and in the Peak)
Total 4 hour plus runs (fell): 15
Total climb (approx but not far off): 150,000 feet
Total double day weekends (running Saturday and Sunday): 12
Longest run: 22 miles / 8,000 feet (recce of Lake, Ridge and Wainwight LDWA route) in just under 8 hours
Fell races / challenges done: Hardmoors 30 (on January 1st!), Hebden LDWA, Wadsworth Trog, 4 Lakeland Passes LDWA, Heptonstall fell race
Thanks for that, that training plan I created reached the 10,000 ft too late. I have to advance everything by about 3 or 4 months!!
I think it all depends on what your strengths and weaknesses are and training those appropriately. I knew that I was (still am!) poor on the really rocky section from Bowfell – Scafell so I spent as much time as I could on that sort of terrain in the lakes. As a result, most of my 10,000 ft / week was done in one or two outings at the weekend with the weeks filled with at least one reps session and a lot of gym work to try and manage my imbalances.
FWIW, my build up (to a round in late August) looked like this –
Jan – May Some hill work (around 4-5000 ft / wk on average) but mainly focussed on strengthening and fixing imbalances in the gym.
May – Aug – Average of 37 m / 10,400 ft over 15 weeks. That climb broke down as : 18,200; 2,400; 10,000; 6,000; 13,800; 9,900; 11,700; 10,500; 11,500; 250 (ill); 10,800; 7,300 19,500; 22,600; 1,700; 600. This included 2 x 30 + mile efforts (Kinder Killer and most of legs 3 and 4 from eskdale) and a lot of back to back 4-6 hour efforts and one 10 day block in the lakes with 8 days running (110 m / 42,000 ft) – I really think that once you can get out day after day with no real recovery required you are ready to go.
Pat, there's loads of experience with the BG at Pennine. They're a great bunch and I'm sure would be willing to help with training advice. Similarly on here too. There's no need to "re-invent the wheel"Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
As with most things, the best method is to keep things simple and adaptable for you. Do whatever suits you during the week but base the training on getting out and doing some long days on the route. Start by having your long day as a leg of the BGR (actual or equivalent depending on where you live) and work towards 2 legs and then 3. Also get some consecutive big days in. The rest of the sessions are filler and probably tread that fine line between optimal and overtraining.
Glad I bumped this up. Lots to think about. I'm looking at a June attempt, so at . moment. Working on getting the endurance work in with more running and about 6000ft ascent building up to 8000 by Christmas.
The biggest thing I learnt from my BG-training experience was that it was possible to do too much training. I started at Christmas averaging ~7000ft a week initially, but by April I was up above 15000ft a week, averaging ~13000ft over a 20-week period. I got round, but not in the style I felt reflected the training I'd done. Despite a full 3-week taper I think I was actually over-trained from doing so much for so long, as well as losing a lot of running speed (which in itself is not a problem for the BG).
I've since done a mountain ultra race (which took 20 hours so comparable to the BG) on less training with what I think was a much stronger performance than my BG. The difference in preparation was that I did my 'normal' training for months beforehand with the occasional big day out but the key element was 120+miles/50,000ft+ of training in a 10 day period just before my 3-week taper, which included big days back to back. I had originally planned to do more training so was surprised at how it went and sort of stumbled upon a new recipe for success (at least by my standards).
If I get a spot for the UTMB next year I plan to take the key principles of that training regime and apply it again, perhaps culminating in two consecutive 3-day weekends of big training. There is a 4-part series on the UTMB training that Jez Bragg did on run247.com that I think is useful. Although it doesn't give a detailed breakdown of his training, it seems to take a similar approach with a few big 2/3 day efforts rather than big volume for months in advance. Jez is in a different league to me though so I will be cautious about taking too much from it!
The big caveat is that I am obviously a sample of one and everyone is different. Also, having only done a very small number of these types of events I no doubt still have lots to learn. Because of the sacrifices your BG supporters (willingly) make for your attempt I didn't want a lack of training to be a reason for not succeeding - that could have suggested I took their support for granted. This was a key reason I did so much training, but ultimately I did too much.
If I was doing my training again I'd probably look at averaging 10,000ft a week only over maybe the last 8-10 weeks of training, with the latter weeks well above that value before a good taper. I'd also want to be doing single and double legs on the route to give confidence both in the route & terrain and against the required schedule.
I don't want to encourage contenders to under train, but hopefully it adds some value to those planning their attempts for next year!
Colin
"If I was doing my training again I'd probably look at averaging 10,000ft a week only over maybe the last 8-10 weeks of training, with the latter weeks well above that value before a good taper. I'd also want to be doing single and double legs on the route to give confidence both in the route & terrain and against the required schedule" plus what I call boot-camp weeks (four big days at Easter and a week in Lakeland three weeks or so before her attempt for the wife last year) would be my suggestion too
Agreed, a few highly concentrated periods of big training like that are what I think is key, bootcamp being a perfect way to describe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Colin
Do people do a mixture of hills.
-Continous hills ie 3 x 10 mins of running hard up and down a 60 second incline
- long hills ie kinder or shutt
- long hilly days
- scrambles
(Need to find one in white peak but maybe hen cloud)
Hills, big hills, long mountainous days and plenty of them. If you go Doddick (or Parachute) and Foxes Tarn you'll barely have to touch the ground apart from Kirk Fell / Gable so scrambling is a waste of time. Climbing and time on feet, knowing where you're going and getting food and drink down you are what are important
Cheers DT. Spent 5 hours out on the white peak and did 6k ascent/descent.
1,200ft per hour in the Peak is decent going and 6,000ft in 5 hours is a very decent session for BG prep
Just checked the suunto. Was 5hrs and 25 mins so I lied haha.