Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

That's because they all seems to have made that same error in the early stages of the disease.
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Thanks for the epidemiological expertise.

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I don't know the exact figures

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Oh.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

Statistics are not simple, yet some non experts think they know more about this field than trained statisticians - the all too common not knowing what we don't know.

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Hence A Little Knowledge Is A Dangerous Thing

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Hence A Little Knowledge Is A Dangerous Thing

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....and leads to long, long comments.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Hence A Little Knowledge Is A Dangerous Thing

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especially if you use it to hector others rather than to express an opinion oneself

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

especially if you use it to hector others rather than to express an opinion oneself

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don't be such a bully. Graham's done nothing wrong!

A brilliant example of working around the rules:

Since early September, Waukee and Woodbury Central Community School Districts have told teachers to get students up and walking around every 12-14 minutes in order to minimize consecutive time spent next to classmates. The 14-minute limit would allow most students to remain learning in-person even if someone in the classroom tests positive for COVID-19. The Iowa Department of Public Health guidelines state that only those exposed to the virus for 15 consecutive minutes within 6 feet need to quarantine after exposure.

I can just imagine a little covid sitting there with his stopwatch and at 15.01 going yippee and jumping across from one kid to another!

A free to read article from the FT which basically tells you all you could possibly want to know (and then some more) about the potential for a successful vaccine: https://www.ft.com/content/e5012891-...5-182adf3ba0e2

Overall it’s fairly positive but some interesting facts I got from it were:

1. It’s highly unlikely that a vaccine will give full immunity. A vaccine could be deemed successful if say it reduces infection rate by 50% or more

2. Boosters will be needed to maintain immunity

So I guess even with the vaccine covid is going to be knocking about for a while

well, I guess that ends the problem of false paws-itives

Let's all change.

Let's support the protests against the covid rules.

Or not!

Absolutely not

More Stella driven drivel?

I was beginning to think Stagger's posts were somehow so ironic that they passed beyond irony into a relativistic netherworld.

I think I was probably giving him too much credit.

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Originally Posted by Stagger

Let's support the protests against the covid rules.

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People support things in all the wrong ways these days. Wittering on about it on Facebook, protesting en masse somewhere expecting that ganging up on coppers in Whitehall will make old Boris change his mind...no. My mate stu and me protested against lockdown by him hopping over my garden wall to help me split logs. We banged the world to rights on a Saturday morning whilst leaving the hippys to get banged up.

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

I was beginning to think Stagger's posts were somehow so ironic that they passed beyond irony into a relativistic netherworld.

I think I was probably giving him too much credit.

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Yes, probably.:)

Don't be soft snowflakes.

Stand up for what is right.

And think about the good of the country.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/joining-us

Join a party that will NEVER LEAD.

Sadiq Khan, June 6 on BLM protest: “I stand with you and share you anger & pain”

Sadiq Khan today on anti-lockdown protest: “ This is not acceptable... leave now”

Once again, one rule for some... and another for others

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Originally Posted by Stagger

https://www.libdems.org.uk/joining-us

Join a party that will NEVER LEAD.

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I stand corrected

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

I was beginning to think Stagger's posts were somehow so ironic that they passed beyond irony into a relativistic netherworld.

I think I was probably giving him too much credit.

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I think you're massively over-thinking there...!

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

Sadiq Khan, June 6 on BLM protest: “I stand with you and share you anger & pain”

Sadiq Khan today on anti-lockdown protest: “ This is not acceptable... leave now”

Once again, one rule for some... and another for others

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What a numpty that bloke is, he makes boris look smart.

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Originally Posted by Stagger

What a numpty that bloke is, he makes boris look smart.

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He's not the only one. There are some glaring examples of double standards going on.

The worrying thing is he might actually believe some of the wind - up schoolboy rubbish he posts on here

Didnt know Sadiq posted on here! Whats his handle? Fellbeast??;)

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Didnt know Sadiq posted on here! Whats his handle? Fellbeast??;)

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He probably wouldn't ever show his face on the forum. To many fascist alt-right types.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

We would all like to be able to protect the vulnerable whilst at the same time letting the young "live", not so they can catch it, but knowing they will. But no country in the world has succeeded in doing this - Covid always leaks from the young to the old/vulnerable. Lots of the vulnerable are not old - they work, have kids, are in contact with lots of the public, and have high blood pressure/diabetes/auto-immune disease/malignancy and so on - without Covid most have many quality years to live - if they catch it, things may be very different. And we need to remember that a significant number of young people with no underlying illnesses end up unwell for months.

Yesterday's More or Less on BBC R4 was interesting - it well and truly put to bed the "They are mainly false positives" story. Statistics are not simple, yet some non experts think they know more about this field than trained statisticians - the all too common not knowing what we don't know. Worth a listen - and it covers caffeine in pregnancy as well.

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Has it crossed your mind Mike that some of the vulnerable would rather take their chances with Covid than live in a society that insists on locking people down?

Regarding statistics. They are only a guide in some instances but when it comes to human choices they cannot tell us certainly what action an individual may take. There are those who are bound by them but I think those that do tend to lose their humanity.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

People support things in all the wrong ways these days. Wittering on about it on Facebook, protesting en masse somewhere expecting that ganging up on coppers in Whitehall will make old Boris change his mind...no. My mate stu and me protested against lockdown by him hopping over my garden wall to help me split logs. We banged the world to rights on a Saturday morning whilst leaving the hippys to get banged up.

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Mr B you cheer me up. Can we have episode two of 'how to fit a car stereo?'

Ok. I'm not usually one for David Icke type conspiracy theories and the like, but I did read this, in regard to CV, in The Hill and wonder if maybe those that do might just be an incy wincy bit right, or have a point...

"One of the main themes of the June meeting [a virtual conference of world leaders involved with the World Economic Forum - 2020] was that the coronavirus pandemic has created an important “opportunity” for many of the World Economic Forum’s members to enact their radical transformation of capitalism, which they acknowledged would likely not have been made possible without the pandemic."

see https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-e...adical-plan-to

and it includes Prince Charlie's penny's-worth (so take this seriously folks :rolleyes:)...

“We have a golden opportunity to seize something good from this crisis — its unprecedented shockwaves may well make people more receptive to big visions of change,” said Prince Charles at the meeting, adding later, “It is an opportunity we have never had before and may never have again.”

Are we all sheepy-pawns in the secretly planned "Great Reset" of the World Order?

Where's 007 when you need him to check out the latest Blofelds ? :cool:

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Originally Posted by CL

Has it crossed your mind Mike that some of the vulnerable would rather take their chances with Covid than live in a society that insists on locking people.

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My sentiments exactly

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Originally Posted by CL

Has it crossed your mind Mike that some of the vulnerable would rather take their chances with Covid than live in a society that insists on locking people down?

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But they are not just taking their own chances, they are taking other people's chances as well - if they could not infect anybody else during the course of their illness, then I would of course have no objection to letting them take risks.

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Originally Posted by CL

Has it crossed your mind Mike that some of the vulnerable would rather take their chances with Covid than live in a society that insists on locking people down?

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Amen to that there is one right here:cool:

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Originally Posted by Mike T

But they are not just taking their own chances, they are taking other people's chances as well - if they could not infect anybody else during the course of their illness, then I would of course have no objection to letting them take risks.

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seconded

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Originally Posted by Mike T

But they are not just taking their own chances, they are taking other people's chances as well - if they could not infect anybody else during the course of their illness, then I would of course have no objection to letting them take risks.

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If you are one at risk, just stay home. Quite simple.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

If you are one at risk, just stay home. Quite simple.

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which shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation.
Simple is as simple does.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

But they are not just taking their own chances, they are taking other people's chances as well - if they could not infect anybody else during the course of their illness, then I would of course have no objection to letting them take risks.

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

seconded

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

If you are one at risk, just stay home. Quite simple.

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Are you guys suggesting that all vulnerable people are selfish and self centered or may be thick or something

and derserve to be placed in into a situation where mental illness is a more likely outcome

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

If you are one at risk, just stay home. Quite simple.

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To borrow from Ben Goldacre again, I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that. What would your simple solution be for people who live in a care home of some sort, or who live in their own home but who need regular visits from a carer or nurse? How can they protect themselves from the virus being brought into their homes?

It seems to me that anyone who thinks there is a 'simple' solution to this crisis really hasn't understood the problems we're facing.

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Originally Posted by JohnK

Are you guys suggesting that all vulnerable people are selfish and self centered or may be thick or something

and derserve to be placed in into a situation where mental illness is a more likely outcome

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no.
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Originally Posted by JohnK

Are you guys suggesting that all vulnerable people are selfish and self centered or may be thick or something

and derserve to be placed in into a situation where mental illness is a more likely outcome

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While I can see the logic in what Mike T is saying, I do worry that the cure may be worse than the disease [or, to be pedantic, the prevention measure may be worse than the problem being prevented]. Thinking back to when I was a first-year student, if I had been locked in my hall of residence for 14 days, they would probably have been scraping the remains of my body off the pavement below my room window before the fortnight was up. I won't be surprised if there is some serious disorder in some universities within the next week or two.