Don't get too het up over the stats; get out on the hill, graft and have fun! :)
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Don't get too het up over the stats; get out on the hill, graft and have fun! :)
Amazing what climbing you can find on then doorstep. Started at hen cloud, over Ramshaw and up to three shires. Then over cat and fiddle to Shining Tor, couple of reps of that. Then back across to macc forest over shutt to roaches and the car. Add Cat Tor to it next time
Great stuff. There's a cairn on Ilkley Moor at the top of a 550ft climb that I reckon I visited 100+ times in BG training
I think it will be shining tor and shuttingsloe.
I probably went up Pinhaw four or five times a week - I could just about run the Lothersdale race route with my eyes shut!
Bumping this. Seem to be getting lots of niggles so backing off the training a little. How long do you need to be doing10kft a week? Three months before hand?
Derby Tub recommended to me about 3 months. 10,000 ft/week = 3000 mtr/wk. I am doing between 2000 and 2300 mtrs at the moment. Done the Tour of Pendle (1300 mtrs) and it went well. Got The Trigger in January now.
Cheers doc. I'm going to struggle around tour.de hell then try.and.get niggle free. Gives me two.months to get fit and build to the 10000ft.
Consensus is maybe 10 weeks before tapering so for say early June build up to 10k early to mid March. Don't get obsessive and don't let it get in the way of holidays, illness etc. Everyone loses the odd week or weekend. The year I got round I didn't decide I was going before early JanuaryQuote:
Originally Posted by spen
My concern is the type of climbing. Doing loads of reps, so getting the height in but I don't think it is steep enough. Especially true on the descents.
Dr Pat, panic ye not. Keep on keeping on. The real training starts in February, not October. Think of what you're doing now as conditioning or training to get fit to train specifically for what you're targetingQuote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
I've not got close to the BG yet. Done a bit on the route. But I've trained for, and completed long events culminating in WHW Race last year. I completely recognise the sense in everything DT is saying. its easy to panic three months before. Back-to-backs...hills...hills...distance and hills. but as and when...as DT says, its definitely best not to fixate too much...Keep on keeping on!! Great advice DT! IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
Ditto here! I am probably doing more than enough this long before a late spring /early summer attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by that_fjell_guy
Over in Hayfield tonight and done a couple reps of Sandy Heys, its a tough bugger!
http://www.strava.com/activities/222857744
compared to my prep you are well ahead of the curve.
I started on Christmas Day and did the BG on 30th May
Built up time and distance in the hills locally and then frequest recce trips to the Lakes in March, April, early May
I find any hill road in the evenings after work and fell at weekends seems to work.Watching my ascents on Strava build up which is encouraging
Training for my BG 10 years ago I made lots of use of a leg press machine at a local gym with lots of reps. I now much prefer deep air squats using body weight only, or 5kg dumbbells. What have folks without hills on their doorstep been doing during lockdown? I have used an 18" box for step ups and targeting 3,000m per week - that's a lot of steps!
Fairplay! That’s a lot of steps! Well having decided to aim for a 2021 attempt I’ve managed to aggregate my hamstring tendonopathy! So hitting the weighted squats and deadlifts in the hope that it will settle before a trip to the lakes in a couple of weeks!
During lockdown i've still been aiming at 10,000ft/week on home treadmill. As for strength work, it has by necessity been bodyweight squats only... which i guess is not strength work at all.. just a bit of conditioning.
The strength/conditioning work has been the main issue... looking forward to gyms opening so can get a full range of leg work in (weighted squats/leg press/hamstrings/hip thrusts).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Where there`s a will there`s way
https://gotimetraining.com/improvise...ilitary-style/
https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-perfo...-gym-equipment
Plenty more ideas if you look and use your imagination ;)
Have fun
Thanks,Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK
Yes... Although I am well acquainted with the multitude of ways to train strength away from the traditional gym, I must admit it's a fault of mine that I never use them, and prefer to stick to traditional gym work where possible.
My theory was to just make best use of the lockdown and the facilities easily to hand... which basically entailed ramping up the miles and trying to build a really strong base, with a little bit of endurance work. As the above obviously includes plenty of hills anyway, I thought i'd concentrate on the pure strength work when the gyms re-open!
Since the start of lockdown my training log tells me I have 'climbed' 50,000m, of which 9,000m was in two recent visits to the Lakes. The rest has been on my box at home.
Step-ups are great.
I’ve been lucky enough to have a loan of a barbell and plates from a closed gym during lockdown, and I’ve been regularly doing step-ups with a bar on my back… I started to get a bit sore, though so I’ve backed off.
I haven’t really thought it through but I do believe that if you’re a hill runner there’s probably merit in doing both weighted stepups with a barbell to improve your max strength, and long bodyweight sets to work on your endurance. horses for courses.
I'm a great believer in strength/conditioning work... lots of squats for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipchris
Only issue with really pushing your max strength, you have to lift heavy, i.e typically what you can lift for no more than 5 reps at a time... this can really fatigue your legs and leave you struggling to get enough running in. I don't necessarily think you need to be able to squat 140kg to be a great fellrunner (although it wouldn't harm you if you could!)
I personally prefer to push the squats more towards the endurance range, so will do reps of 15-20 with lighter weight (perhaps only 40kg on my back, a bit more if i'm doing leg-press rather than a traditional stand-up squat). I think, coupled with plenty of running and uphill work, gives good strength and conditioning.
Nice post Marco... you have the benefit of experience, age and wisdom, so i don't wish to argue with you...
I know i couldn't lift "heavy" and maintain a decent mileage. But strength is strength, whether you use it for work, combat sports, ball sports, or indeed running... and the accepted best way to maximise your strength is indeed your approach "high weight, low rep".
I guess all our bodies are different, as are our approaches to training.
This is a tricky balance to find.
To actually get stronger, you’re both right: lift 'big weights'. At the start of the year, my 'S&C' work was basically heavy squats, heavy pause squats (to try and get my squats heavier), and heavy deadlifts…
…And I was absolutely knackered. At that time, I wouldn’t have been able to pair this with the running volume needed to be a good runner.
However, since March, I’ve been working how best to manage some peristant knee/hamstring pain I’ve been stuck with, so my running volume has suffered badly (hence I haven’t lurked on the boards because reading about other people’s running was just depressing).
During that time I’ve built both my squat and deadlift to roughly sets of 6 x BW… and it no longer feels like I’m working hard. I just go into the garage, do them, and crack on with the day. My running volume’s not back to where it should be, but I’m pretty confident I can get up to 30mi/wk without over-taxing myself.
I think the right approach is good old periodisation, over a number of years. For instance, 6 weeks HEAVY strength work, dropping that off a little as you do a few months 'base training', then dropping it right back to 'maintainance mode' as you do a few months really hard hill running training. Six weeks chill, then back at it.
ALL THAT SAID, to clarify my original musing: I do suspect (I’m not a scientist and I have no research to back this up!) that it could be worth doing step-ups in BOTH the strength and endurance ranges because of the specificity principle: If you want to be good at taking a lot of steps uphill quickly: the best training is to take a lot of steps uphill quickly! :)
I think periodisation is generally the best way to train for anything (I've recently watched a couple of lectures on the Lydiard training principle of loads of base mileage, then adding in phases of hills/intervals/speed work...)
It's certainly a lot easier to maintain strength once you've got it, than it is to build that strength in the first place...
Whilst I try to structure my training as best as possible, the nature of fellracing does throw up some unique challenges for peaking and periodisation. I recently discussed the very same with a Lydiard coach, and very competent runner on both the flat and the fells...
So I usually end up just trying to cover everything and be consistent, having a decent base all through the year... Which means I'll never really have a calculated "peak".... One of the drawbacks of a hectic racing schedule...
I'm not aware of any recent studies or indeed any currently active researchers that advise against periodisation, it's the underlying training principle in every sport.
I think strength training is important in endurance sports as it gives you a higher ceiling such that the lower level stress becomes a lower percentage of your max strength, i.e. it's easier to run at 60% of max effort than at 70% even if your pace is the same in both instances.
The Lydiard training principle sounds very much like polarised training: roughly 80% base in Z1(recovery) and Z2 (endurance) with the remaining 20% being high intensity.
This is exactly why I train as I do. I nicked the idea from my brother’s rock-climbing mates… I have no idea how scientifically-supported it is, but I’ve seen it work very well anecdotally!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Only thing I’d add is that I’ll see your 'endurance sports' and raise you 'hill climbing sports' — I suspect that most great fell runners have super-duper-strong legs, although the strength will have been built on the fell rather than in the gym.
As a corollary, I (a not-very-strong bloke) ran both Ennerdale and a trail marathon last year… I finished my mara in the top 7%, but finished Ennerdale in the bottom 25%. At Ennerdale I still had ample legs for the run-in, but every single ascent was a miserable exercise in watching people pass me.
Cheers for sharing, Marco. It’s good to read stuff like this because so much of the quality (i.e. ‘researched’) material i read about strength training is powerlifting-oriented, which is obviously the other end of the scale when it comes to body composition, so i have to take it with a pinch of salt.
fwiw here’s my home squatting setup (barbell now sadly departed)
Attachment 8797
Looks like a nice wooden balance bike too!
Excellent spot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Llani Boy
After 2 years out with injury and some tragic family circumstances I’m back running from Monday. I know I need to start at the beginning again but my fitness does return quite quickly. Living in the Stourbridge area it is tough to get the 10,000 ft in a week. Any tips on some base mileage and getting the climbs in would be very welcome
Spen, you're not far from where I live. There is plenty of good advice on this thread regarding specific strength training. Combine that a few runs on the Clent/Waseley Hills and you should be well on your way. I can easily get 500m ascent into a 10k run - 30-40 mins hill reps will yield about the same ascent. Nowhere near what you could do in the lakes etc but at least it is time out on your feet on testing terrain.
Not sure if you are a cyclist but your local area is also a cycling dream in terms of plentiful, if short, hill climbs. 2 hours ride will get you 1000m ascent easily.
Cheers mate. I know clent and wasley and obviously got Malvern a bit further afield. Joining a gym on weds,Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS
I ripped out some old fitted wardrobes last weekend, and built this in anticipation of the cold dark winter months ahead: Attachment 8804 — it’s been christened "yewbarrow".
Excellent question.
I “engineered” it with step-ups in mind (it is reinforced with 2x4 inside), but having given it a few ginger leaps, I’m hopeful I can use it for plyo jumps as well.
I was planning on making something a bit more flash, but when fate hands you six identical square former-cupboard-doors…