High Peak Marathon

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Originally Posted by IainR

Of course you are right. We shouldn't drive unfit. But who here hasn't?

That's why I think the comment let him without sin cast the first stone is apt. In fact I can only think of a few runners I know, I think one has posted on here, who only use public transport, so they are probably the ones above reproach on this matter.

Almost of all of us will have driven tired, after late runs, long runs, night pacing on rounds.

Basically its just a salutary lesson and not a time to point the finger. Because 99.9% of us would be hypocrits to do so.

But yes I think you are right, if a climber drove 10 hrs London to Scotland, bagged 4 great ice routes, then drove 10 hrs home, he'd be considered a bit of a hero. Had a guy driven pissed he'd be considered a muppet, yet both would have the same reaction times.

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Just because we all did it, and mostly got away with it, doesn't mean we have to go on pushing our and other people's luck forever. Maybe at this kind of race it will become the norm for competitors to demand and organisers to provide some kind of shared transport to the nearest town where public transport/ accomodation is available. We devote infinite research and ingenuity to questions of training, gear, tactics etc. Surely all our combined intelligence and will-power can be used for some lateral thinking around this problem.

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Originally Posted by Alexandra

If a recreational event cannot take place because people can only take part by risking other people's lives, so it goes! It used to be argued that England would be ruined if small children were stopped from working 12 hours a day in mines and mills.

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And they were proved right! That was when Britannia ruled the waves! Look at us now: getting pushed round by the Argies? Land of Hope & Glory...:D

Sorry, possibly still delerious following Saturday's run.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Alexandra

I have many a time driven home from a weekend in the Lakes with my eyelids closing. It was a nightmare at the time, but it was just what people did. Now I look back and shudder at what could so easily have happened.

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I quite agree with your comments. I also have had the experience of almost nodding off and have taken steps to prevent that happening. Whenever possible (most times) I travel to events on my own so as not to be under pressure to travel back straightaway. I then have a good sleep in the back of my van and also stop frequently for short rests. Even so, a disaster only needs one chance and it happens for unforeseen reasons, such as when the brain of a driver fails to register the image of a cyclist the eyes have sent to it. I have been the victim of that more than once.
ydt

Twice in the last 12 months I have been driving back from an event and been fighting to keep my eyes open. On both occasions I stopped and had a 10-20 minute kip which worked wonders and allowed me to continue my journey 'refreshed'. It's amazing what such a small amount of shut eye can do. I remember reading an article a couple of years ago about a guy going round the world on an R1 in a stupidly short time and his sleep pattern consisted of 40 minute sleep stops.

I've entered the HPM four times - each time I drove the five hours up on the Friday morning and dozed during the day, and stayed on the saturday night and drove home on the sunday. Once I did it with two blokes who finished and stepped straight into the car and drove home to the south-east, taking it in turns to doze in the car. But the equation is different for everyone - maybe SRF had to catch a particular flight after the event and planned to sleep on the flight? Perhaps a short drive to the airport would have been OK. On this occasion, it seemed not to have been.

I didn't do this years HPM but I have done my share of distance events and have factored in the post challenge arrangements. Only a fool wouldn't admit that the appeal of some of these events is that at some point of pushing one self you actually get out of your head, I have been with people who have acted like they have downed two bottles of whisky after such an event. I no longer need to get out of my head cos I quite like what's in there. But seriously some people say they can hold their drink better than others some people push their luck and get away with it.

The seat belt business is of no consequence to this accident, it is almost like saying a cyclist deserved to get injured because he wasn't wearing a helmet when hit by the speeding car. The criteria is totally different, not wearing a seatbelt does not impair your ability to drive.

I know people who do such events and have alchohol as well, I don't know what they are trying to prove.

We Fellrunners/cyclists of all people should not condone such behaviour because more often than not it is one of our own that gets it (and I have lost a few). It doesn't mean we hate SRF we should just admit he was in the wrong and there are limitless options for alternative means of getting home/airport etc

There are NO excuses.

Yes the HPM is a great event, but as with many other events maybe more thought should go into post challenge arrangements, for goodness sake a lot of people here berate the 3 Peaks Challenge for exactly this reason and yet when I did it with the Fireservice a couple of years ago we had a couple of dedicated drivers and a vehicle with a restricted top speed, and it was brilliant and we came second.

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Originally Posted by Dr H Tool

I did it with the Fireservice a couple of years ago we had a couple of dedicated drivers and a vehicle with a restricted top speed, and it was brilliant and we came second.

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How did the vehicle cope with the Scafell ascent?

Ha bloody ha, it couldn't keep up with me :p (could have been cos one of the drivers was overweight)

Well i wasn't sure whether to post my thoughts, but I'm kinda glad I did, if only to get some discussion and awareness. I did not mean to point fingers at individuals but what happened has to raise some questions.

I'm not sure it has to be at the level that requires the event organisers to lay on specific post event transport although if they want to they are more than welcome, but a simple awareness by all competitors that they cannot possibly be in a truly fit state to drive (especially long distances) after having not slept for the night would be enough.

Get a bit of kip before going home, find other competitors in your area to share with, stay overnight after the event, persuade your loved ones that a weekend in Edale and its surroundings is a wonderful thing! These are all things we could do.

I am pretty anti H&S for the sake of it and I am willing to take risks in what I do out on the fell or wherever, but when you are driving a car on a public road there are many other people out there who could have their lives ruined by an individuals decisions.

Yes we all make mistakes, we have all driven tired after big days out, but after a night of no sleep you really have to be aware that that is dangerous.

If this particular incident had happened at a different time and the crash had happened at 60mph, regardless of seatbelts etc. someone may have died. If it was proved that you had been up all night in an event and not had any sleep, the charges could well be causing death by dangerous driving - that carries a prison sentence and you've ruined lives. there are many 'if's in this statement and they only didn't occur due to luck.

Kat

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Originally Posted by Alexandra

Maybe at this kind of race it will become the norm for competitors to demand and organisers to provide some kind of shared transport to the nearest town where public transport/ accomodation is available.

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The HPM base is extremely close to Edale railway station with good, regular trains to both Sheffield and Manchester. If you can't get there you'll have trouble operating the pedals of a car.

There was lots of caffeinated drink knocking around and nothing to stop you grabbing a bit of kip in the car. If the race organisers insisted you sleep for X hours before you drive off, would you stand for it? I remember an argument many many pages long about being forced to take mobiles on a Lakes AL (iirc) race.

Most of the competitors have done the race a number of times before and even those who haven't should know exactly what to expect.