Bike Racing

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Originally Posted by Marco

The point I am trying to make is this current period is unusual. In the past, there have been periods where one rider, such as Hinault, was so much better than the rest that they won pretty much won every stage race they entered (barring injury/illness).

There were other periods when there was no outstanding talent, and it was wide open (I'm thinking of 2011 after Bradley Wiggins crashed out).

The current time is not like either of these. For the first time in around 50 years we have three truly great grand tour winners all competing at the same time, and they are 23,24 and 26 years old. Talented as Pidcock is, it's going to be very hard for him (or anyone else for that matter) to beat these three.

In years to come this will be seen as a golden age for stage racing; enjoy what you're seeing now, as it could be another 50 years before we get an era this good again.

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Yes and 2 of the 3 truly great grand tour winners both rocked up for the same team at the Vuelta and their only realistic rival looked like he'd been nobbled.

I'm more suspicious of what happened to Evanpoel. I'm surprised you aren't.

As for Pogacar at the TdF, I did make the point at the time that his Spring cost him a serious tilt at the TdF because he was up against a truly great grand tour winner and him being 98% wasn't enough.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I'm more suspicious of what happened to Evanpoel. I'm surprised you aren't.

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Evenepoel had a bad day. The difference is, however, that either Evenepoel, or his director in the team car, is very intelligent. Instead of losing 3-4 minutes, and still being a threat, Evenepoel chose to have an easier day and lose a huge amount of time. By no longer being a threat to the GC leaders he was allowed to get into breaks and win stages.

Proof of this tactical genius is that he changed tack completely mid-race and won the Mountains category, the Combative category, and had Kaden Groves failed to finish he would have won the Points category too. He also won three stages, had three second places, and gained more publicity for his team than any squad other than the yellow and black one.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

As for Pogacar at the TdF, I did make the point at the time that his Spring cost him a serious tilt at the TdF because he was up against a truly great grand tour winner and him being 98% wasn't enough.

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I might have agreed with you about Pogačar before the time-trial, but I'm now firmly in agreement with L'Equipe - and they started the Tour de France in 1903 and have been following it ever since.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Evenepoel had a bad day. The difference is, however, that either Evenepoel, or his director in the team car, is very intelligent. Instead of losing 3-4 minutes, and still being a threat, Evenepoel chose to have an easier day and lose a huge amount of time. By no longer being a threat to the GC leaders he was allowed to get into breaks and win stages.

Proof of this tactical genius is that he changed tack completely mid-race and won the Mountains category, the Combative category, and had Kaden Groves failed to finish he would have won the Points category too. He also won three stages, had three second places, and gained more publicity for his team than any squad other than the yellow and black one.



I might have agreed with you about Pogačar before the time-trial, but I'm now firmly in agreement with L'Equipe - and they started the Tour de France in 1903 and have been following it ever since.

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I haven't seen that either Evenepoel or his director have acknowledged such genius, more that it was assumed by followers of the sport and pundits.
Have they come out with such an admission?
I do see it as a likely conclusion and the doubt I have is about when he started to ship time, it was on the Aubisque which isn't the toughest climb and was only 50km in. It also seemed incredible that Almeida took such a big hit as well without LJ even trying that hard and their other main rider Soler also had a below par day.

Funnily enough considering the matter at hand, the day after what Evanepoel did put me in mind of Landis :)

A still maintain Pogacar was under-prepared and rode recklessly early on in the TdF. I expect we will see a different Pogacar next year.

I don't think the sport is helped at the moment by a couple of teams having so many riders that would be main GC in other teams.
I suppose Sky started that.
But for GC contenders these days you are looking at riders from only a few teams.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I haven't seen that either Evenepoel or his director have acknowledged such genius, more that it was assumed by followers of the sport and pundits.
Have they come out with such an admission?

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I rarely read the cycling media, as it doesn't say much that I can't deduce from watching the highlights. The people in the cars are often ex riders, and some of them are very good tactically. The facts are: Evenepoel changed his objectives mid-way through the race, and he finished up with the best Vuelta, and the most amount of coverage, outside the top three. Compare that to the invisible man, Thomas.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I do see it as a likely conclusion and the doubt I have is about when he started to ship time, it was on the Aubisque which isn't the toughest climb and was only 50km in. It also seemed incredible that Almeida took such a big hit as well without LJ even trying that hard and their other main rider Soler also had a below par day.

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I've ridden the Aubisque from the same side used in this year's Vuelta twice; once on my own, and once in a group of ex-racing cyclists. I narrowly lost the sprint at the top by half a wheel to a former international rider. I can tell you that a bad day on that is going to lose a lot of time.

I was first to the top of the Tourmalet, also riding it in the same direction as this year's Vuelta, and over three minutes clear. I found it easier, as it suited me better.

To say the Aubisque "isn't the toughest climb" is doing it a dis-service. It's classified as an Esp climb, which is the toughest category there is. In running terms it's probably a bit like running up Snowdon. What you have to remember is that they'd already climbed a 3rd category climb, and had a 1st category and then an Esp category climb to finish on. This probably makes the stage compare to something a bit like the Peris horseshoe.

A mountainous stage with multiple big climbs is not that dissimilar, in terms of effort and overall tactics, to a fell race with multiple climbs. You can't win it on the first climb, but you can lose it

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Originally Posted by Marco

I rarely read the cycling media, as it doesn't say much that I can't deduce from watching the highlights. The people in the cars are often ex riders, and some of them are very good tactically. The facts are: Evenepoel changed his objectives mid-way through the race, and he finished up with the best Vuelta, and the most amount of coverage, outside the top three. Compare that to the invisible man, Thomas.



I've ridden the Aubisque from the same side used in this year's Vuelta twice; once on my own, and once in a group of ex-racing cyclists. I narrowly lost the sprint at the top by half a wheel to a former international rider. I can tell you that a bad day on that is going to lose a lot of time.

I was first to the top of the Tourmalet, also riding it in the same direction as this year's Vuelta, and over three minutes clear. I found it easier, as it suited me better.

To say the Aubisque "isn't the toughest climb" is doing it a dis-service. It's classified as an Esp climb, which is the toughest category there is. In running terms it's probably a bit like running up Snowdon. What you have to remember is that they'd already climbed a 3rd category climb, and had a 1st category and then an Esp category climb to finish on. This probably makes the stage compare to something a bit like the Peris horseshoe.

A mountainous stage with multiple big climbs is not that dissimilar, in terms of effort and overall tactics, to a fell race with multiple climbs. You can't win it on the first climb, but you can lose it

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Ben Healey did in the Giro.

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Originally Posted by Marco

I rarely read the cycling media, as it doesn't say much that I can't deduce from watching the highlights. The people in the cars are often ex riders, and some of them are very good tactically. The facts are: Evenepoel changed his objectives mid-way through the race, and he finished up with the best Vuelta, and the most amount of coverage, outside the top three. Compare that to the invisible man, Thomas.



I've ridden the Aubisque from the same side used in this year's Vuelta twice; once on my own, and once in a group of ex-racing cyclists. I narrowly lost the sprint at the top by half a wheel to a former international rider. I can tell you that a bad day on that is going to lose a lot of time.

I was first to the top of the Tourmalet, also riding it in the same direction as this year's Vuelta, and over three minutes clear. I found it easier, as it suited me better.

To say the Aubisque "isn't the toughest climb" is doing it a dis-service. It's classified as an Esp climb, which is the toughest category there is. In running terms it's probably a bit like running up Snowdon. What you have to remember is that they'd already climbed a 3rd category climb, and had a 1st category and then an Esp category climb to finish on. This probably makes the stage compare to something a bit like the Peris horseshoe.

A mountainous stage with multiple big climbs is not that dissimilar, in terms of effort and overall tactics, to a fell race with multiple climbs. You can't win it on the first climb, but you can lose it

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all fine, but you are losing sight of the issues here.

You are highlighting a 1-2-3 and seeing that as problematic and suggesting performance enhancement.

Who could have got among them on the day?

Well Evenepoel would have been the most likely. He wasn't there.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

all fine, but you are losing sight of the issues here.

You are highlighting a 1-2-3 and seeing that as problematic and suggesting performance enhancement.

Who could have got among them on the day?

Well Evenepoel would have been the most likely. He wasn't there.

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You've clearly made your mind up that there is "nothing to see here" and you are right, regardless of the evidence. I have stated something like six points of concern, which are not normal in professional cycling, and I can think of another two.

I had about 15 years of club cyclists telling me that I was wrong and that Armstrong was clean, as he wouldn't do drugs after having cancer etc. Time will tell, but there is a saying "When something seems too good to be true, it usually is"

No I wouldn't say I've made my mind up - that seems to be you. I was intrigued that you jumped to the conclusion you did due to a 1-2-3 on a Stage.
That 1-2-3 didn't surprise me in the context of the Tourmalet stage because the depth wasn't there at this Vuelta with Evanepoel out of the picture.
I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader and only seem capable of winning a proper mountain stage from a breakaway.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

No I wouldn't say I've made my mind up - that seems to be you. I was intrigued that you jumped to the conclusion you did due to a 1-2-3 on a Stage.

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And this is what I wrote on the 19th of September 2023, please read it as it looks like you've only read the first 13 words of the second paragraph and then stopped

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Originally Posted by Marco

Where do you want me to start?

Should I start with the 1-2-3 from a team on a road stage, something that I've never seen before in a grand tour? Or should I mention the second 1-2-3 from the same team a few days later?

Maybe I should mention the first 1-2-3 overall by a team in a grand tour since the 1928 Tour de France (I'm discounting the dodgy 1966 Vuelta, where only the Spanish Kas squad finished a full team amongst the 55 finishers, and put six riders in the top seven. [General Franco was still running a dictatorship at this time.]) Even Armstrong's Trek squad, who were doped up to their eyeballs, couldn't do a team 1-2-3.

It was probably the way three of their team waltzed off the front at will, making Evenepoel and Thomas (both grand tour winners), plus Ayuso, Landa, Mas and Vlasov, look like rubbish. Again and again.

They say it takes about two months to recover from a grand tour, so it is rare that a rider rides all three as the accumulated fatigue is so great. Kuss, however, rode all three and finished 14th, 12th and then 1st. Again, you can add that to the 'never seen before' list.

And then there is consistency. In clean racing riders have bad days, and in 2023 we've seen bad days from Pogačar, Evenepoel and Thomas (all grand tour winners). But one team doesn't seem to get bad days anymore

All in all, we have been seeing superhuman feats from the yellow and black team for two years. Not just one rider, but four with van Aert. And then you start to cast your mind to the last time you saw superhuman feats on a bike, and how that ended ...

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

That 1-2-3 didn't surprise me in the context of the Tourmalet stage because the depth wasn't there at this Vuelta with Evanepoel out of the picture.
I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader and only seem capable of winning a proper mountain stage from a breakaway.

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That is deeply disrespectful to the likes of Ayuso, Landa, Mas and Vlasov, who all finished within 8 minutes of the leader after almost 77 hours of racing. In a previous era one, two, or even three of them would have finished on the podium. The likes of Merckx, Hinault and Fignon won grant tours with winning margins of over 10 minutes.

Older readers will remember:

The 1994 Fleche Wallonne when Gewiss-Ballan had a 1-2-3 with Argentin, Berzin and Furlan.

Under the photo in one of Graham Watson's books he wrote "There was talk of their dominance not being entirely natural...".

And then in 1996 three Mapei riders led Paris-Roubaix for 86K and then Museeuw, Bortolami and Tafi slowly circled the velodrome while Patrick Lefevere decided the finishing order.

So I cannot get too excited about the antics of Jumbo-Visma. It is, after all, merely a matter of degree.

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Originally Posted by Marco

And this is what I wrote on the 19th of September 2023, please read it as it looks like you've only read the first 13 words of the second paragraph and then stopped


That is deeply disrespectful to the likes of Ayuso, Landa, Mas and Vlasov, who all finished within 8 minutes of the leader after almost 77 hours of racing. In a previous era one, two, or even three of them would have finished on the podium. The likes of Merckx, Hinault and Fignon won grant tours with winning margins of over 10 minutes.

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I read it all Marco. I can imagine you have forgot more about bike racing than I have ever known, so I don't disagree lightly and I always read you words.

That's why I am surprised at the position you have taken because I've read what you have said prior to 19th September and this was a bit out of the blue.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I read it all Marco. I can imagine you have forgot more about bike racing than I have ever known, so I don't disagree lightly and I always read you words.

That's why I am surprised at the position you have taken because I've read what you have said prior to 19th September and this was a bit out of the blue.

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And here is what I said on the 29th of July 2023 ...

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Originally Posted by Marco

Not for me; the Tour de France has left me with a bad feeling that sport-enhancing-chemicals (drugs) are influencing the results again

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https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/show...e-Racing/page6

Marco come on pal.

In May - you thought Evanpoel was going to turn the Giro in to a procession.

Roglic was in that Giro and won it.

Was that "deeply disrespectful" to Roglic, Thomas, Almeida...oh and wasn't Vlasov in there?

In July you mentioned the current 3 truly great Grand Tour winners which I took to mean Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel from the ages you gave.
You missed out Roglic - he's won 4 and had some podiums and had to depart when in contention. Was that deeply disrespectful?

Roglic only lost the TdF because of an incredible TT by Pogacar - the sort of performance that raised eyebrows this year in the TdF TT.
Are there question marks over that TT?

Pogacar, following his wrist injury you told us we wouldn't know if it would be career threatening until next year.
You felt it would ruin his TdF chances.
But you make a judge on the Vingegaard TT Performance against a Pogacar you'd previously written off.

So I'm puzzled, but I'll leave it there.

And this is what I said on the 9th May-2023

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Originally Posted by Marco

I think it's Evenepoel's to lose. The fact he's lost the lead today is not of concern; it just means his team haven't got to chase.

Looking down the standings, it's not that strong a field for a race of this stature. Whilst I think Tao could improve on his current position, I think the win is beyond him. Ineos are no longer a really top team, and they seem to have two leaders rather than one undisputed leader. The route doesn't look that difficult either and, sorry to say it Graham, there is a distinct possibility of it becoming a parade for Evenepoel.

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And on the subject of Evenepoel on the 12th May 2023

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Originally Posted by Marco

I don't think he's the finished article, and I don't think he's as good as Tadej Pogačar was before his crash, but based on the today's result, where he finished top of the contenders, I think he's pretty determined to win the Giro and it's up to the others to try and beat him.

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Evenepoel, not Evanpoel, withdrew from the Giro whilst leading it because he'd tested positive for Covid-19. Roglic did not beat him, Evenepoel left the race. What I did not say, which would have been deeply disrespectful was:

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader and only seem capable of winning a proper mountain stage from a breakaway.

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I missed out Roglič because I don't believe he is a truly great Grand Tour winner. In the Giro Thomas lost two of his most important teammates; Ganna with Covid-19, and Tao GH with a fractured hip. Despite this Roglič only won by a few seconds ahead of Thomas, who I also did not refer to as a truly great Grand Tour winner.

Roglič lost the Tour a few years ago because he had a bad day at the time-trial, whilst Pogačar had a good day.

History has shown us that a wrist injury can be career threatening in cycling, and coming in the spring it was always going to disrupt his chances in the Tour. As it turned out, it doesn't seem to have had much effect on him and Pogačar's Tour de France time-trial was bordering on suspicious when compared to all the good riders behind who were tightly packed. When Vingegaard then posted a time 1 min 38 quicker still I can't call it anything less than suspicious.

You can't see the inconsistencies?

You were concerned about Vingegaard being a doper on the basis of a direct comparison with another's performance who you had already written off for the season.

You name 3 exceptional GT riders and include Evenepoel on the basis of one win, only one completion until last week, but don't include Roglic, 4 times GT winner, GT podium finisher, won 20 Grand Tour Stages, Dauphine. Paris-Nice; 12 x Stage races in total.
I think this is his 7th season and he's also won an Olympic Gold and a few one day classics.
You call me deeply disrespectful.

19/7
In years to come this will be seen as a golden age for stage racing; enjoy what you're seeing now, as it could be another 50 years before we get an era this good again.
29/7
Not for me; the Tour de France has left me with a bad feeling that sport-enhancing-chemicals (drugs) are influencing the results again

10 days - that puts Sunak's U-Turn in to some perspective.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

You can't see the inconsistencies?

You were concerned about Vingegaard being a doper on the basis of a direct comparison with another's performance who you had already written off for the season.

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No. I raised seven 'points of concern' about riders from the yellow and black team. You have, repeatedly, chosen to focus on just one of them.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

You name 3 exceptional GT riders and include Evenepoel on the basis of one win, only one completion until last week, but don't include Roglic, 4 times GT winner, GT podium finisher, won 20 Grand Tour Stages, Dauphine. Paris-Nice; 12 x Stage races in total.
I think this is his 7th season and he's also won an Olympic Gold and a few one day classics.

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This is professional cycling, not racing numbers. A rider doesn't become great by the number of wins, it's the manner in which they win that counts more.

Laurent Fignon is credited with only three grand tours, but he is considered one of the greats. The reason for this is partially because in the 1984 Tour he beat Bernard Hinault (one of the greats) by 10 mins 32 secs, and Greg Lemond (a three time winner of the Tour) by 11 mins 46 secs. He won five stages, two of them solo wins on mountain stages whilst wearing the leader jersey. Graham will have a word for it, I'd probably describe it as 'pure class'.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

You call me deeply disrespectful.

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Yes. You said "I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader". Of the other team leaders, Ayuso finished 4th, Mas 6th, and Vlasov 7th. In a field of 176 riders in 22 teams there are 22 team leaders. Finishing 4th, 2 mins and 10 secs behind Roglič, is not a bad performance, and saying that someone is 'not up to the job' for doing so is deeply disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

19/7
In years to come this will be seen as a golden age for stage racing; enjoy what you're seeing now, as it could be another 50 years before we get an era this good again.
29/7
Not for me; the Tour de France has left me with a bad feeling that sport-enhancing-chemicals (drugs) are influencing the results again

10 days - that puts Sunak's U-Turn in to some perspective.

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I said that this was a golden age for stage racing, because it is. I never said it was a golden age for clean racing.

You have taken taken my words from the 29th July out of context. I was stating that I would not be entering a competition to pick the leading places in the Vuelta; I was not saying that I would not be watching some of the race.

The only U-Turn is in your imagination

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Originally Posted by Marco

No. I raised seven 'points of concern' about riders from the yellow and black team. You have, repeatedly, chosen to focus on just one of them.



This is professional cycling, not racing numbers. A rider doesn't become great by the number of wins, it's the manner in which they win that counts more.

Laurent Fignon is credited with only three grand tours, but he is considered one of the greats. The reason for this is partially because in the 1984 Tour he beat Bernard Hinault (one of the greats) by 10 mins 32 secs, and Greg Lemond (a three time winner of the Tour) by 11 mins 46 secs. He won five stages, two of them solo wins on mountain stages whilst wearing the leader jersey. Graham will have a word for it, I'd probably describe it as 'pure class'.



Yes. You said "I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader". Of the other team leaders, Ayuso finished 4th, Mas 6th, and Vlasov 7th. In a field of 176 riders in 22 teams there are 22 team leaders. Finishing 4th, 2 mins and 10 secs behind Roglič, is not a bad performance, and saying that someone is 'not up to the job' for doing so is deeply disrespectful.



I said that this was a golden age for stage racing, because it is. I never said it was a golden age for clean racing.

You have taken taken my words from the 29th July out of context. I was stating that I would not be entering a competition to pick the leading places in the Vuelta; I was not saying that I would not be watching some of the race.

The only U-Turn is in your imagination

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You raised 7, I've dealt with all of them with one exception over a series of posts but you've chosen not to recognise that. I'm not asking you to agree, but I have commented on them.

Fignon - moot - we are talking now - current crop - you can't recognise Roglic and placed Evenepoel ahead of him as a Grand Tour rider.
In 10 years time that might stand up to scrutiny. It doesn't currently.

"That 1-2-3 didn't surprise me in the context of the Tourmalet stage because the depth wasn't there at this Vuelta with Evanepoel out of the picture.
I look through the rest and they are just not up to the job of team leader and only seem capable of winning a proper mountain stage from a breakaway."

Here's my full quote, which as you can see dealt with one of your 7 (the 1-2-3 issue). Out of Mas, Ayuso and Vlasoz I suspect only Ayuso was satisfied with his overall performance and he was joint team leader and I think you had something to say about that somewhere but never mind.
I didn't name them, you did, but overall I was reflecting on the overall standard and looking a t the 22 team leaders realistically how many of them had GC ambitions? 10 maybe?

By the way, I didn't take your words from 29th out of context. It had nothing to do with whether you were going to take part in Velogames.
The context I was showing was you went from a Golden Age for Stage racing to doping in 10 days. That's quite a leap.

And this is what I said four hours ago ...

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Originally Posted by Marco

I said that this was a golden age for stage racing, because it is. I never said it was a golden age for clean racing.

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I know - but it seems a bit odd. I couldn't describe something as a golden age if I suspected it of being ruined by doping.
Never mind - I think our positions have been done to death.

Ooooh Graham, get a bottle of something fizzy cracked open, as Mark Cavendish has postponed his retirement for another year! ;)

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Ooooh Graham, get a bottle of something fizzy cracked open, as Mark Cavendish has postponed his retirement for another year! ;)

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Well what can you expect from a needy, narcissistic, pitiful, selfish, spoiled hypocrite?

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Well what can you expect from a needy, narcissistic, pitiful, selfish, spoiled hypocrite?

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There's a few comebacks come to mind :D

Roglic on the move as well. Looks like Bora.

Tour De France spending first three days in Italy next year :D

Finishing with a Monaco-Nice time trial, due to Paris hosting the Olympics.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Tour De France spending first three days in Italy next year :D

Finishing with a Monaco-Nice time trial, due to Paris hosting the Olympics.

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The first half of the fourth day is in Italy too.

I've no idea why the biggest cycling race in the world, the Tour de France (which means the circuit of France), starts and then spends three and a half days in Italy. Personally, I think it makes it a laughing stock; La Vuelta rarely leaves Spain.

For what it's worth the 1998 Tour de France started in Dublin, although as the worthy winner was riding a Bianchi Graham will no doubt tell us what a magnificent race it was (and on this occasion he'd be right) :)

Even better the year it started in Yorkshire and came past the bottom our road!

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Originally Posted by Marco

The first half of the fourth day is in Italy too.

I've no idea why the biggest cycling race in the world, the Tour de France (which means the circuit of France), starts and then spends three and a half days in Italy. Personally, I think it makes it a laughing stock; La Vuelta rarely leaves Spain.

For what it's worth the 1998 Tour de France started in Dublin, although as the worthy winner was riding a Bianchi Graham will no doubt tell us what a magnificent race it was (and on this occasion he'd be right) :)

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I think the French are a bit blase about their Tour and having a few days in Italy sprinkles a little glamour and fairy dust on the fraught crash-crash opening days.

The 1994 race started in Lille and I saw the start of Stage 4 Dover - Brighton which was an odd affair. The previous day's Stage 3 was a 66 km TTT (Calais to Eurotunnel) and then Stage 5 was a jaunt round Southampton but by that evening it was all back to Cherbourg for Stage 6 on the following day. Still I'm sure the riders enjoyed the train journey in a tunnel and a trip on a boat.

I'm not as big a fan of cycling as many on here... but i've come to accept that Tour De France often has a few days outside of France....

But it seems a very odd choice to spend so much time in Italy which has its own Grand Tour.

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Originally Posted by Travs

I'm not as big a fan of cycling as many on here... but i've come to accept that Tour De France often has a few days outside of France....

But it seems a very odd choice to spend so much time in Italy which has its own Grand Tour.

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But it's all about towns paying ASO for the financial benefit...ooops I nearly wrote honour there... of having the start and/or finish of a stage.

If 21 Italian towns paid enough ASO would happily have the entire Tour in Italy!

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Originally Posted by MattPo

Even better the year it started in Yorkshire and came past the bottom our road!

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On its way to Ilkley I believe.;)

I came to the opening stage when it was in Yorkshire, the finish being in Harrogate.

Harrogate was packed and i was a good 800mtrs from the finish, so i missed the big crash in the sprint.

The oddest one was Denmark.
It seemed to take forever for them to reach France. I can't be bothered to check but guess it was about a week.
All three GTs do leave their host country though.
The 2018 Giro started in Israel and next years Vuelta starts in Lisbon which I wouldn't mind being out there for.

There seems a rather Napoleonic desire to take the Tour de France all over Europe. I'm wondering which year they will have to ride eastwards all the way to Moscow, before a dispirited remnant return slowly to France.

I will be off on a short run soon with the aim of getting back in time to sit down and watch my favourite one day race, Paris Roubais.
Always a hard one to predict with luck playing a significant part. MVDP looks unbeatable so far this season but Mads Pedersen and Jasper Philipsen in good form. Tom Pidcock is a last minute entry having crashed out of the tour of the Basque country. Laurence Pithie would be my outside punt though
I watched the women's race yesterday and if conditions are similar, then it could be a fast race but some cross and headwinds will play their part too.
It wil be interesting to see what affect if any the new chicane before the entry to the Arenberg Forest will have. I fear it will only move the action to the previous cobbled sector as the attacks go to gain a better position for the chicane.

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Originally Posted by PeteS

I will be off on a short run soon with the aim of getting back in time to sit down and watch my favourite one day race, Paris Roubais.
Always a hard one to predict with luck playing a significant part. MVDP looks unbeatable so far this season but Mads Pedersen and Jasper Philipsen in good form. Tom Pidcock is a last minute entry having crashed out of the tour of the Basque country. Laurence Pithie would be my outside punt though
I watched the women's race yesterday and if conditions are similar, then it could be a fast race but some cross and headwinds will play their part too.
It wil be interesting to see what affect if any the new chicane before the entry to the Arenberg Forest will have. I fear it will only move the action to the previous cobbled sector as the attacks go to gain a better position for the chicane.

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When MVDP made his break from so far out logic would suggest that the group could/ should/ cannot fail to reel him in as he tires - but the speeds are so phenomenal that they just cannot.

Spellbinding.

Enthralling stuff as ever. The attack was amazing and to pull out such a large time gap in a relatively short period over 2 or 3 sectors of cobbles was quite remarkable.
MVDP obviously has the edge physically and just like any race that Pog too enters, the psychological advantage is so great, everyone else is riding now for a podium place.

Visma lease a bike woes weren't helped by today's outing either. This half of the season is practically a write-off already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Enthralling stuff as ever. The attack was amazing and to pull out such a large time gap in a relatively short period over 2 or 3 sectors of cobbles was quite remarkable.
MVDP obviously has the edge physically and just like any race that Pog too enters, the psychological advantage is so great, everyone else is riding now for a podium place.

Visma lease a bike woes weren't helped by today's outing either. This half of the season is practically a write-off already.

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I used to regularly watch the Tour on either the Tourmalet or Alpe d'Huez. Lots of memories but one is of the speed of it all. Today they were ridng at, say, 30 mph. You need to ride a bike to grasp just how fast that is - and how damn hard, if a MVDP sprints to get even 25 yards on you, it is to bridge the gap.

And if you do bust a gut and catch up with him - he will just glance at you, pull away again and leave you destroyed.

You just cannot grasp this watching the chess pieces on TV.

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

I used to regularly watch the Tour on either the Tourmalet or Alpe d'Huez. Lots of memories but one is of the speed of it all. Today they were ridng at, say, 30 mph. You need to ride a bike to grasp just how fast that is - and how damn hard, if a MVDP sprints to get even 25 yards on you, it is to bridge the gap.

And if you do bust a gut and catch up with him - he will just glance at you, pull away again and leave you destroyed.

You just cannot grasp this watching the chess pieces on TV.

.

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Occasionally (and I mean occasionally!) I trigger a 30mph speed warning sign on my way to work. Well you just have to if you are in the mood..

To average that for 250km over cobbles is well, unthinkable.

I need a decent downhill to get up to 30mph :D

It's admirable what he did, but it's a team event and I do wonder what some of these other teams are up to. Other than Trek, they were more or less irrelevant yesterday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Occasionally (and I mean occasionally!) I trigger a 30mph speed warning sign on my way to work. Well you just have to if you are in the mood..

To average that for 250km over cobbles is well, unthinkable.

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Come to Wales, I only have to 20mph to trigger the speed warnings, good for the ego if nothing else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

When MVDP made his break from so far out logic would suggest that the group could/ should/ cannot fail to reel him in as he tires - but the speeds are so phenomenal that they just cannot.

Spellbinding.

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I was watching a brief video of some of the highlights of Paris-Roubaix, with subtitles generated automatically from the commentary. It was quite amusing to see the subtitling software's attempts at the winner's name: my favourite was "Thunderpool".

On another matter relating to this race, I was wondering what the riders wear on their hands to protect them from the effects of vibration when riding at those speeds over the cobbles?