seen this?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVfzOCq_vWE
if they had mobile phones the network would have been jammed with runners calling home for last words with their nearest and dearest before they snuffed it
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seen this?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVfzOCq_vWE
if they had mobile phones the network would have been jammed with runners calling home for last words with their nearest and dearest before they snuffed it
chris would you have NOT become obsessed with fellrunning if mobiles where compulsory when you first entered the sport or is it because the phone idea has just come about ??.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
To be fair the last thing I'd label an organiser of a fell race as being is a 'blazer' :) . I'm really grateful to the time and effort that I'm sure Andy Jenkins is putting in for the Edale, regardless of the mobile thing (..... that he's obviously got wrong of course ;)).
Come on guys, stop winding people up! :D
One of you is trolling shurely....
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...6531#post96531
Beat you to it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Bill
Well I'm not trolling and don't call me Shirley :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Similar post appeared on UKClimbing.com - the responses make this forum appear the height of polite discussionQuote:
Originally Posted by dominion
No, Stolly. That wasn't the point I was trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
'Blazer' is the disparaging term often used by fell runners on this forum to refer to the athletics establishment. Some people do wear blazers in track and field athletics and most of them give a huge amount to the sport. That is why the term 'blazer', in my opinion, is a bit ignorant as it is based on some myth of over-officialdom.
For all it's supposed self-reliance fell running has taken on an unhealthy awareness of insurance and liability issues. I wonder if this forum, me included, shouldn't just shut up about it (except that the mobile phone requirement does seem to justify some comment)?
To be fair chris, I think the disparaging 'blazer' term is used by all runners, regardless of whether they are fell runners or not. eg, the 'blazers' who decided to ban me for 9 months for changing clubs, even though at that time they regularly didn't ban runners joining certain other clubs....
Not that I really want to extend this tedious thread but Grouse...how can you be so high and mighty about mobile phones when you love the internet as much as we forumites do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
Surely the web is the worst culprit for
1) fragmenting society- relating to invisible people instead of the real ones that live near us and
2) monitoring people's movements, preferences and spending habits.
Ps. I've heard that Tesco's are the worst for sending subliminal propaganda down the pipe. One day soon you will find yourself at the express checkout with a fruit flan in one hand and a mobile in the other.....with absolutely no idea how you got there.
It's a fair point Chris. However, the issues are real and they are worth discussing...even if its just ideas that go no further. And, as the UKA affiliation vote showed, what we yak about on here is often far removed from what the masses think:rolleyes:
Blimey...... is this thread still rambling & rumbling on...?
Surely Shirley it's time to put it to bed....
I thought it was done to death after the first couple of pages, way back in 2007!
Don't call me Shirley.
Sorry just scrolled back and saw someone had already cracked that one.:o
I'll get me coat.
Greenleafer - couldn't say that I love the internet - I love fell running, but to be honest there's not much I do on the internet except post here, except for using it for work. I wasn't being high and mighty - I was just saying what I think. I didn't say it made sense or was consistent with anything else, in fact I think I apologised for rambling on a bit.
So there.
Interesting extra spice on the Equipment section http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?t=3388
A horse fell rider trying to get personal locator beacons legalised. The link to the rock climbing forum discussion is worth following to see the views from an allied (but nuttier) group.
The comment that put the willies up me was:
"I am a Safety Consultant, and as a safety professional I wholeheartedly support your campaign to make these devices legal for use on land.
In fact I would go further and make them mandatory for climbers, walkers, etc in some areas, as their use would make the search and rescue operations much easier."
Although I suspect this might have been a troll or dwarf or whatever you web-geeks call a wind-up merchant!!
Excellent, common sense, I didn't mean to imply that the organisers of this particular race didn't specify such and my apologies if you felt that was the case, I was generalising. Like I said, If I'm asked to carry a phone I will, I've got plenty respect for those who give up their time to organise events, I have no wish to be critical, without organisers and marshals we are all sunk. Having said that, the debate/ethics are interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Mobiles Schmobiles!!!
I've never read as much hot air in all my life as this thread.
What we're looking at here is our (and by that I mean every last one of us) total over-reliance on mountain rescue teams for safety cover on our long races.
If we were all as self-reliant as some of the gobbers on here dream that we are, then, after the Edale Skyline's finished, and we're all in the village hall sipping tea and eating sarnies, feeling self-satisfied with our performances (!!), it should go something like this:-
Andy comes dashing in and says that he's a couple missing between Mam Nick and Jacob's Ladder. Immediately, we should ALL get of our backsides, kit up again, grab extra waterproofs and lights from the cars (cos it's gonna be a long night) and sweep-search in a big long line from Lord's Seat right over Brown Knoll to Edale Cross. Whatever the time, whatever the weather. Everybody! Right?
If you want modern day rescue teams to look after you, then you've got to play the game their way.
Personally, I would dearly love to go back to the old ways (and don't think these things didn't happen, they most certainly did) - but I fear that there are some folk on here who would quickly go back to road running when they tasted reality.
So, plenty of waffling comment and oblique personal insults but no actual constructive viewpoint on the compulsory mobile phone carrying issue then Thuggy?
Nothing new there then... ;)
I didn't think Yorkshire Thug was being particularly wafflely or making personal comments to be honest, although I did struggle to see what point he was making :). I'd be more than happy to join in a search for missing runners after a race if called on (wouldn't we all?). My major gripes all along with this mobile thing have been having to carry one with absolutely no or very low expectations of actually getting a useable O2 signal, no idea what number to ring should I have an insurmountable problem (Edale MR what ever number that is I guess) and an extremely high chance of breaking the mobile (especially the way I often tumble down descents) which isn't mine in the first place.
Actually even the old ways often weren't as people remember them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire Thug
Fellrunner report of Fairfield Horseshoe 20 May 1973 ie 35 years ago.
" Although the rain through the night was heavy enough to make the committee think of postponement...when race time arrived....Fairfield was almost clear of cloud".
Well there's none so blind as them than will not see ...
What I'm saying is that, having created this situation whereby MR Teams look after our butts (as they did for several of us last year on the Skyline) why start squawking when these guys want to make their lives a little bit easier?
I wish we could go back to the old days (like when we had 20-30 running and you HAD to navigate!!) but we can't.
So .. just put up or shut up. It's 2008. It'll still be a good race.
YT
PS I've got an O2 and although I don't get much of a signal around the head of Grindsbrook, it's fine for the rest of the course.
Ta :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire Thug
Well, I did say OBLIQUE personal insults. "gobbers" sounds like an insult to me, and "some on here would go back to roadrunning" - now that's definitely an insult!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Thuggy - "put up or shut up" ? What exactly would 'putting up' consist of in the context of this debate?
Oh, and Stolly, believe it or not, rumour has it that Yorkshire Thug is female... ;)
Hang on a minute! (With the locator beacon thread in mind as well.) It suddenly occured to me; what the heck do we think we're all playing at?!
Running around the hills in bad weather with hardly any clothes on, having to be rescued by teams of volunteers with high tech equipment. What on Earth is it all for? Shouldn't we be ashamed of ourselves? The MR, organisers and marshals get nothing from all this except maybe a longer/colder day than the racers. Shouldn't we keep our sport where it belongs: in the valleys and fields where it's safe and the main danger is from crossing a road?
If anyone starts spouting about adventure I say "what adventure?"
This reminds me so much of the way climbing has gone. First there was a furious debate about bolts, then there was climbing and "sport climbing", now it's climbing and "trad" climbing which is what Joe Brown and Whillans used to do.
Maybe fell running will split into two branches with people doing both as the fancy takes them ie "sport" fell running, where the emphasis is on pure athletic prowess and phones, beacons, GPS, anything new which makes the game safer are allowed and "adventure" fell running where the flier will read "no safety pins or mobiles" and you just do it.
Before safety pins were in regular use, numbers had to be sewn on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guick Dotto
The emphasis on safety has also ruined this aspect of the sport as well.:D
Aye when I were lad "no safety pins" meant "only dangerous pins" or shove off!:D
Great, YT's been on.
We should be able to get another 150 posts on this mobile phone thread.
Hope we don't get stitched up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
If fell running was simply about how fast you can run I would be more inclined to support this argument - but I think its about how well (or badly) you can do a lot of things - running fast is just one of them, navigating is another. So are actually choosing routes between checkpoints and crossing rough/steep ground etc.
I've commented in an earlier post about why I respect organisers and marshalls for the work they put in but I still can not bring myself to support the compulsory carrying of mobile phones on races. Objectively what would they be used for? - eg
1. I'm lost, please help. - as has been said by others already its easy to get lost, we can all do it, but if you cant then navigate yourself safely off the hill or back on course you probably shouldn't be doing the race.
2. I've found another competitor/I've hurt myself with an injury serious enough to prevent him/her getting off the fell by themselves.... If you can get a signal from where you are this will obviously save time in getting help but in reality you often wont get a signal and you will rarely be more than thirty minutes running (forward or back) to a manned control where the marshalls will usually have reliable comms. In many races you will be able to descend to the valley to summon help in less time than this. I'm aware of numerous broken/difficult/misinterpreted calls to MR leading to much confusion (there are a lot of blea tarns in the lakes for example) but a call via landline from the valley or via marshalls is likely to be more reliable.
3. Someones had a heart attack.... Sadly the reality is, even with helicopters (assuming they can get to you in the conditions) your chances are usually very small regardless of how fast you can summon help
What all the above mean to me is that the circumstances in which a mobile is going to be significantly useful are very limited, and I feel too limited to objectively justify making the carrying of them compulsory. This brings me back to my earlier point that I feel a more effective contribution to improve safety would be a willingness/requirement to carry more kit when conditions justify it. I dont feel we can use the safety argument as an unbeatble trump card to impose requirements like this otherwise we really will end up with flagged courses and a requirement not to stray off a designated route for safety reasons (and I dont mean where we have controlled sections of races for environmental or access reasons)
Race organisers have an easier time if they can phone a mobile to find out that the runner that retired and didn't tell anyone is safely down and enjoyin a pint in a pub somewhere
You do not need to carry a mobile phone during the race for this requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by wynn
thats true........
I was under the impression that you COULD dial 999 if you didn't have your network coverage but were near other signals; the last three mobiles I've owned over the last six years or so read "Emergency Calls Only" or "Limited Coverage" when there is no o2 (for sake of argument) signal but there is other signal (rather than "No network" or something for when you really are out in the middle of nowhere) and allow you to dial 999, 112, 911, and possibly some others too.
Two of the three have nothing but a 'dial SOS' button if there's no SIM card in.
All these bizarre links saying that you can't dial 999 without network coverage are, as far as I am aware, incorrect or massively out of date.
this is a vaguely interesting point so I found this on tinterweb:Quote:
Originally Posted by steve456
This isn't quite correct.
Whilst the GSM spec allows for network locked phones to roam onto other networks for emergency calls, the UK networks do not allow it - they have no GSM roaming agreements between UK networks - so if you're out of coverage from your provider, you cannot roam onto another UK network to make calls, emergency or otherwise.
Again, whilst the GSM spec allows handsets to make emergency calls without a SIM, UK networks do not allow it.
The simple story is that to make an emergency call in the UK you require:
a.) An enabled and active SIM from network 'X'
b.) A handset which can normally make calls on network 'X' (ie. isn't locked out from that network)
c.) Network coverage from network 'X' at current location.
If any of those requirements aren't met, then you cannot make an emergency call (or a normal call either). Again, the GSM spec does allow this to happen without any or all of these, but the network can decide whether they want to allow it, and in the UK, they haven't.
The handset may think it can make emergency calls (ie. "Emergency calls only" but when the user would try to make that call, they wouldn't be successful (in the UK).
So, if you set fire to yourself, don't think you can call a Lifeboat out to Mermaid's Pool :)
Had a mooch round 1st half of skyline at the weekend. Imagine my surprise when I got a text message coming up to Mam tor (I was using the tracker on the mobile) Usually zero coverage in Edale with T-Mobile, perhaps if you're in sight of Castleton you can get through.
BTW Someone was playing helicopters in a big way, looked like police, air ambulance and air sea.
Sorry to but in! :cool: My husband regularly goes with his amatuer radio group to ensure the safety of others on triathalons, cycle races etc. Fellrunnig events (if not already) could be covered the same way and the mobile phones would not need to be compulsory. The PLB issue if successful is more for the solitary person as a last resort.
:) The Amatuer Radio Group takes a small donation to help their running costs. They have a mobile base station usually in the venue carpark and strategically placed mobile units. If an accident happens they radio for assistance to base. This is more suitable for events like these.
Was it that wet in the Edale valley that air sea rescue were required?Quote:
Originally Posted by bogtastic
I was planning to enter the Skyline this year (done it a few times before) but I don't have a mobile so am ruled out. Guess I'll find another race or run round Edale and watch.
One of my pal's has mobile with camera. I can imagine him being able to get away with taking pictures of attractive rear ends and e mailing these to non running mates ("look at what I'm following") as an incentive for them to take the sport.
On the skyline? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by TANGO