[QUOTE=Ady;487821]http://connect.garmin.com/activity/187152706
...having to pass some of the walkers fannying around! ...
Do you really expect people to get out of the way for you? Yiannis
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[QUOTE=Ady;487821]http://connect.garmin.com/activity/187152706
...having to pass some of the walkers fannying around! ...
Do you really expect people to get out of the way for you? Yiannis
My Garmin had it as 20.14 miles and 5,994ft of ascent. (Plus 4.76 miles back to Llanberis and an additional 32ft of climb).Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ1979
I just worry we're now at a stage in Wales where the organiser makes the call on safety, not the runner, so if a full route is ran, well it must be safe as the full route is ran.. I'd rather it is pushed on to the runner, run slower, wear more clothes navigate, DNF if you get cold, get lost, but enjoy the challenge rather than a shift to marked trail races..
which the 1000m peaks increasingly is.. less and less route choice.. its a 'mountaineers' race, then test mountaineering skills.. as said its the organisers call, but its a race I doubt I'll do again when at the same time of year I could do Jura, Ennerdale, Duddon or OcT and be much more confident of getting the challenge I am after..
There's a difference between mild frontal weather, like the Peris, which was very similar to the full Jura route in 2009, and then 3-4 deg C and strong winds.. The fact that you had a guy out for 27 hrs during the same weather suggests it could have gone.. you'd just have had to wear a jacket and have some sense..
If you want to see lack of sense.. stand at the finger post at Bwlch glass and watch runners and walkers hit the bwlch before they add layers.. then either struggling in westerly gales to put jackets on or getting colder and colder.. it should be pretty obvious that the moment you pop up its going to be breezy..
And now we'll get the blah blah 'organise a race'.. I organise a weekly run, I help out on more paddy's, almost always night legs when most of you lot are tucked up in bed, so I've paid my dues to be able to comment on the future of fell running... Last year I'd been travelling yet someone was going to be doing a paddy leg over the glyders at night, yet didn't know the terrain, so I slept on a rock and waited for a guy I never knew, never met, to show him the route.. I was absolutely knackered but expected few other local runners would be willing to help him..and as expected no one did.. so yes I've given enough back to comment..
given the recent history of tragic events in fell races,i can understand why the organiser changed the route.however,i think they should have cancelled the race altogether or posponed it for Sunday (as the forcast was good for then) than put on a race that is not representative of the origional concept (if you can`t visit all the 1000m peaks ,you can`t call it the 1000m peaks race).As for giving the runners the choice,i think it should still be the organisers call,as he/she has to think about the bigger picture i.e marshalls,timekeepers,emergency services etc
Some pictures from the race:-
http://www.fellrunningpictures.co.uk/1000metre2012.html
I have to say at 07.30 hrs when I discovered the actual revised route I wasn't happy! I did consider binning it, but decided it was, at least, a good training run. I enjoyed it overall, it was a challanging day once you were through Bethesda. I'm with the, apparent, general concensus, in so-much as I think it could have gone on with choices for people to move to shorter routes plus advice as to kit (with kit inspections if the RO felt happier with that), but I can see the RO's position with the history etc. But ultimately it is a mountain challenge, and weather conditions are part of that, thats why we have rules etc re:kit. Just a point re: buses. One of the marshals asked a bus driver to wait and he apparently refused, saying the next bus would pick people up and return them to Ogwen.
Good day tho' in all, nice to chat to couple of people of here...Daz and Nigel.
As I said before this is nothing new...exact same thing happened 24 years ago in '88. It's the nature of the event and its ethos. Don't forget, the running entry is only a part of the event. In many respects, it is not to be considered as a fell race, rather it is a multi-standard point to point endurance event which encompasses a wider philosophy than just fell running. If you approach it like that (and don't try to generalise what may happen with its organisation to pure fell events) then you shouldn't have a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksteady
If I recall correctly, it started as a walking event for climbers versus the military with running classes being tacked on later. So we are guests at someone elses party.
If so, should rain really be an issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
And I think this weekend was different to your 100mph wind experience.. as I said someone did a PBR in those conditions.. which for me says it all..
And I know I'll get.. as I got after Peris-gate.. that its not shortened for front runners but the back of the field.. but why? If you can't cope DNF.. I've done that.. or do we push the idea that you never DNF.. and if a full course is ran its safe to be out?
Not that I was there (or even born), but my Granddad was in the '88 race and accounts for conditions being a lot worse than Saturday - i.e. 100mph winds on the summit of Snowdon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Completely agree. Fell running is all about self-reliance and it shouldn't the ROs call as to whether everyone in the race will be able to cope - that's up to the individual. In that sense, the Welsh 1000s is safer than a lot of long races in that there are two road crossings where you can drop out should the need be.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
The runner will always have the over-riding decision, because he is only responsible for himself. He can just go out and run the course regardless if he thinks the organiser has made too soft a decision, or he can opt not to do the race at all, if he thinks the conditions are too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
On the other hand the organiser is often in a no-win situation because the law says that he is totally responsible for the runners' safety - even though there are many occasions when it is the individual runner who has the only opportunity to guarantee his own safety.
The legal situation sometimes doesn't make sense in practical terms, but it is the apparatus which will come into play if something goes wrong and this is unlikely to change no matter what we as runners think.
The point I was making whilst I was sucking my pipe and shuffling my slippers is that this is NOT, historically,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Harrison
a fell race and should therefore not be considered as one. I 100% agree about the self reliance thing, and as Rudolph has just said, you can always withdraw from the event to run the full course....which is what I and other OAP's did back last century!;)
I am very impressed Wheeze - you still crack along very well for an OAP wrinkly !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
A runner got banned for that in the OCT last year... in the Peris I did consider turning off as I wanted to run the full route.. but once at a race you want to race..Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
I just think maybe its time for a more consistent approach to weather so we know from looking at forecasts if it would be shortened.. it must be a factor in people not wanting to do North Wales races as, despite the organisers statements, many at last years Peris were dissapointed it was shortened...
If you looked at % call offs or shortenings it must be higher in North Wales than the lakes, when it seems very rare a race is shortened. Was it Wasdale which was shortened the other year, but in that instance that was off MRT advice from the summits so in that case I think the organisers hand is very much forced..
I couldn't do the race anyway, so commenting from my armchair, but wasn't part of the decision linked to the marshalls, rather than the runners, having to cope with the conditions?
Stuart you are correct, that is what was stated, runners and marshalls. This to me is though is trying to lay guilt on the runners for wanting to race and potentially questioning the RO decision. Having spent lots of afternoons, evenings and nights at CPs, it is a great job and they are in a better position to protect themselves from the elements than anyone - Tent up, sleeping bag out, dry warm kit on, flask open and tuck into a huge buttie box and then wait for runners to start checking in - heaven. In fact I would not want to close the CP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Any photo's anywhere yet?!
Well, now it's been quiet on here for the last 9 months, and with the 2013 race only a month or so away, perhaps it's safe to come back into the room.
Hopefully the weather will be 'ok' this year.:w00t:
I've only done the 'classic route' (2005 and 2007) so would be interested to hear from someone who has done both classic and 5 peaks about how their time differed over each route.
Also, whether there are any top tips for the Y Gribin, as I've only ever done that as a 'walker' many, many years ago!
The new version is longer than the old one provided tha it is not raining, in which case the organisers are happy to reduce the event to a trail/road race as per last year.
The first and only time the race went over Gribin, the whole section was clearly marked. The scramble is quite easy.
Thanks ydt,
on the race website the downloadable maps are of such poor quality (or is it me:confused:) that I wasn't sure of the purple lines going either side of Tryfan were optional routes or different routes for different classes, I take it everyone in the fell race goes over Gribin then.
Watch it.... you'll have an Eryri sponsored letter of reprimand winging its way over for that one.. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ydt
I've not done the new version, would love to some day. The Gribin is very safe.. its by the far the quickest way. Stay high though, just off the crest. I reccied it after it had been flagged and the flags were often too low.. on more chossy ground, potentially more dangerous.
Its only a steep drop on one side and you never get that close to it. But its a stunning position in good weather.
I've done it in rain and snow and with the dogs. and it spits you out at such a specific location that navving to GF is very simple.. then its just finding the line off the shoulder.
The inclusion of Glyder Fawr two years ago greatly improved the quality of the race, it even produced a small route choice. For me the ascent of Y Gribin was the highlight of the race.
Last year's bad weather route was disappointing and its highlight was the road section between Pen-y-Gwryd and Pen-y-pass, narrow and busy with traffic and far more dangerous than any mountain top!
For sure its a better route now.. I was never a fan of that middle crossing anyway.. quite boring terrain, not a nice path to descend on.. the new route is much more picturesque. Also as its a scramble now you climb relativelu easily..Quote:
Originally Posted by ydt
Didn't know much about the alternative route, I just think the death the other year (07) really affected the organisers outlook on risk, which was understandable, but shortening routes does affect the popularity of a race.
The day the Peris was shortened someone else did a Paddy Buckley, and it was a guy who lived and trained in Singapore...
Just bumping this one back up.
Who's signed up for it this year? Think i'll be having my first go but need to get the map out for some studying as i've done little in this area except a few goes at the Snowdon Race and a couple of shorter trots out over Tryfan and one of the Glyders in deep snow :o) Anyone got any tips on the route, decent lines etc that they're willing to share?
Anyone want to car share from Leeds?
I'm in. I'm number 1 again (same as last year). I have no route tips because my first year was last year over what Yiannis has descibed as the 'trail / road race' so looking forward to the proper course this year. I might go out and have a pootle over the Glyders this weekend.
Sort out the best route from Glyder Fawr to Pen y Pass , the rest is obvious/marked (if it is as before).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel
Thanks Yiannis - yes, that's the bit I was going to concentrate on. I had it clear in my head last year and then, of course, didn't need to kinow it.
well that was a rather pleasant sunny day in the hills.:thumbup:
Did anyone else take the direct route up the gulley from Lyn Bochlwyd to the 'bowling green' on Y Gribin? I was surprised not to see anyone else up there ahead of me and when I 'popped out' at the top the marshals were surprised to see me come from that direction and they said they'd not seen anyone else take that route! it seemed an obvious straight route to me, though steepish towards the top. As the results aren't up yet I'm not sure how much time I saved/wasted as I need to check the times of the few people who were around me at Ogwen!
just a shame the day ends with a jostle through the crowds of day trippers going up Snowdon (at least they don't get the train though).
I enjoyed the day immensely. Had a good run over the Carneddau, tripped in a bog on the descent. Nice eat up Gribbin, made a balls of the descent of Glyder Fawr. Passed runners and wasn't passed up Snowdon, which was the aim of the day. Finished only a couple of minutes slower than 2 years ago, when I was fitter and it was my fifth not first long race of the year. Very pleased, just need to know the results, on count back of the photos I reckon about 15th ish.
did wonder whether the new dibbers could be linked to the website to give a live feed of results etc?
thank you to the organisers and marshals (inc. Felltrumpets Snr.) see you next year.
felltrumpet, which way did you go up Y Gribin?
where are the photos?
Cheers
Up the north ridge bit, didn't take a split time so wouldn't be able to help with checking, I've never thought of taking that gulley though and I've done it a few time including on Mountain Leader assessment.
Photos are on fellrunningpictures.co.uk Alistair Tye is the friendly snapper.
wfra.org.uk for a link to Alastair Tyes photo's from the top of the Pyg Track.
Big thank's to the organisers. Great race. I died on the Pyg Track. I will be back next year, an incentive if ever there was, to get myself back in shape after a few years on the slide. Eager for the results to see just how far I have fallen...
am I the only one entered/getting excited about this year's race...? :D
I did it 2 years ago when it was shortened/lowered, so hoping to actually do all the 1000's this time!
I will be out. Had not planned to do this...but never really plan anything. Looking forward to it. Looking to recce a bit this weekend. Hope it hurts me and gives me as much pleasure/pain as the peris did. :-)
It was a tough call between Ennerdale or the Welsh 1000s, but I'm afraid Ennerdale won on the basis that I'd never done it before whereas I have (sort of) done the Welsh 1000s, all be it on the altered route two years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by DazTheSlug
(By the way, I'm sure I remember mapping out the altered route and it actually being longer than the normal route. A lot less ascent of course!)
Unfortunately I am having to work in Scotland so miss it for the 2nd year on the bounce.
Well it was fruitless of me doing Ennerdale because I'd never done it before because it was altered to a low level route! Did the Welsh 1000m Peaks go ahead on the proper route? Sod's law it did! How was the race?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Harrison
Indeed the full route was carried out after the RO almost decided to run the 'safe' route. Was a great day out. Managed 13th on my first attempt at it so quite chuffed. Some cracking scrambling as well as good running to be had. So so many walkers on that pyg track on way home. Killer.
Nice one! What time did you do it in? Sounds like I should have gone for the Welsh 1000s instead then!Quote:
Originally Posted by Athers
epic, epic day on the Welsh 1000m's
on final approach of drive in to Llanberis (7:30am) faced with biblical rain/cracks of lightning I felt sure the route would be lowered
a power cut at the community centre added to the "under siege" feeling, but registration proceeded without a murmur, and there was just time to get stuff together and stumble on to the bus to take us to Aber
after sheltering under a bridge from the rain, and clapping the walkers off at 8:30 we formed up for the start, to be told by the RO that we were going to do the full route... unless yer actual lightning started up again, in which case we might be turned back from either Aryg or Llewelyn...
... buuuut never got quite that bad - conditions on Dafydd were pretty atrocious though and there was a lot of doubling-back-and-to looking the "wall" checkpoint - which I eventually gave up on - grateful just to head downwards, see Tryfan and know I was at least in the right valley!
I enjoyed the scramble up Y Gribin (never done it before) before pushing through one last bit of crappy weather on the top of Glyder Fawr
then managed my best ever descent to PyP, following the "red spot" path almost in it's entirety :eek:
the sun was now out and the Pyg/Miners' tracks were swarming with walkers, but was just happy to dry out and know I was going to complete
just over 7 hours (had been hoping for 6:15) but SO happy :D
jog back down to Llanberis was absolutely gorgeous and was impossible to believe it was the same day as compared to the morning
results (inc. splits) are out: http://www.welsh1000m.org/results/index.html
Colin Donnelly only managed 2nd this year :eek: