Physio, Osteo or Witch Doctor?

I've been coping with a sudden, sharp, makes-me-yelp, lower back pain for about 3 weeks now that's not going away. It's like someone has silently sneaked up behind me, and shoved a stiletto blade into my right side! It's not the old, usual, familiar backache I've had for years, which comes and goes, and is managed fairly well by yoga stretches, etc.. No, this is something nastier, I think.

Anyway, my partner is now totally fed-up with my piercing exclamations and associated blasphemous utterances, which can erupt once or twice a day, whenever the silent ninja decides to give me a stabbing. Reluctantly, I've conceded that it's time to get some professional opinion on the issue. But from which professional group? It'll be private as our GP is snowed under.

I'd start with a chiropractor, personally.

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I'd start with a chiropractor, personally.

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Thanks - I'll explore that possibility too.

Get an MRI if you can, and get a printout of the slice of your whole spine down the middle so people can see the curvature and bone positions. A front/back slice in other words.

Hijacking this thread but my physio came out with the revelation today that I should heel strike when running uphill. I don't think she really knows what we fell runners mean by 'uphill'. Perhaps we have a tendency to understate but surely we get 10% plus gradient cannot be run on anything but your toes!
Should I get a new physio?

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Hijacking this thread but my physio came out with the revelation today that I should heel strike when running uphill. I don't think she really knows what we fell runners mean by 'uphill'. Perhaps we have a tendency to understate but surely we get 10% plus gradient cannot be run on anything but your toes!
Should I get a new physio?

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Not until you have shot a sideways-on video of you doing reverse hand springs.

If you perform them well you would be running on the spot.

Unless you turn round - then you could ascend the hill whilst running backwards.

Whatever - it will certainly be a sight to see and keep :)

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Hijacking this thread but my physio came out with the revelation today that I should heel strike when running uphill. I don't think she really knows what we fell runners mean by 'uphill'. Perhaps we have a tendency to understate but surely we get 10% plus gradient cannot be run on anything but your toes!
Should I get a new physio?

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If its an NHS, i wouldn't have bothered in the first place. For what reason anyway?

Flat-footed uphill just puts too much strain on your feet/calves/lower leg.

I always tell people who are trying it out, to get on their toes as much as possible right from the start.

Issue is most people haven't got the calf strength to get up steep hills on their toes either.

As one of my club colleagues once said "run on your balls". The balls of your feet. And that's the same uphill.

For me, it about all those springy tendons and connective tissue. You need to load them to then get the resulting little spring in each step.

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Should I get a new physio?

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Yes, they may be a good physio but they clearly don't understand running so are not giving you good advice

[QUOTE=mr brightside;686851]If its an NHS, i wouldn't have bothered in the first place. /QUOTE]

I've known a few physios in forty years of running. Two or three have been brilliant - especially if recommended by my knee surgeon. Others less so.

I once saw a young woman for the first time and she directed me to sit at the end of her desk facing her. She then carried on faffing about with something or other ignoring me for quite some time. When she eventually looked up I smiled and said "Happy Birthday".

She nearly leapt out of her chair and gasped "How did you know that?"

I pointed to my elbow next to her huge desk diary and for that day she had written in large letters: BIRTHDAY.

I thought it a bit odd that she would need to remind herself of that fact but we moved on to my running problem.

Eventually she suggested that my niggle was because one leg was shorter than the other.

This may be so, but by then I had run/raced tens of thousands of miles and no other medical practitioner had ever drawn this physical disability to my attention. But I listened, smiled and nodded, and paid my bill.

Anyway the problem resolved itself and I concluded that physios are not all the same.:)

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Originally Posted by Marco

Yes, they may be a good physio but they clearly don't understand running so are not giving you good advice

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Generally they have been great and so I would be reluctant to go elsewhere but in this case, they are plainly just wrong.

I do either run on my balls (schoolboy snigger) or toes depending on the gradient and terrain. The advice may have been ok on flat road etc - it was intended for me to make more use of my upgraded glutes - but I can only see a return to Achilles injuries of old if I go there.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Not until you have shot a sideways-on video of you doing reverse hand springs.

If you perform them well you would be running on the spot.

Unless you turn round - then you could ascend the hill whilst running backwards.

Whatever - it will certainly be a sight to see and keep :)

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Unfortunately, I will have to pass on that solely because none of us can work out how to post an image bigger than a postage stamp on here, let alone a video!

Anybody know any good physios in or near Birmingham that are sympathetic to a fell runner's needs (and indeed knees!)

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Anybody know any good physios in or near Birmingham that are sympathetic to a fell runner's needs (and indeed knees!)

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Pete my Physio/Osteopath is absolutely brilliant.... she is a county level track/XC runner, a good level triathlete and a former pro footballer. She knows the score with runners (ie she doesn't just tell you to rest for 6 weeks as she knows it will be completely ignored!)

However whether you'd want to make the journey across Birmingham is a different matter, she is located in Bedworth (Junction 3 M6)

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Originally Posted by Travs

Pete my Physio/Osteopath is absolutely brilliant.... she is a county level track/XC runner, a good level triathlete and a former pro footballer. She knows the score with runners (ie she doesn't just tell you to rest for 6 weeks as she knows it will be completely ignored!)

However whether you'd want to make the journey across Birmingham is a different matter, she is located in Bedworth (Junction 3 M6)

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Thanks Pete,

DM me details and I'll take a look. May be worth a visit to get a better diagnosis if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by noel

As one of my club colleagues once said "run on your balls". The balls of your feet. And that's the same uphill.

For me, it about all those springy tendons and connective tissue. You need to load them to then get the resulting little spring in each step.

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I have a tendency to run on the balls of my little toe, not my big toe, which leads to problems. It's alright landing slightly inverted, but you need to roll through it fairly promptly and get up onto the ball of your big toe and activate through the arch of your foot. The less you claw with your toes the better.

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Originally Posted by Travs

Pete my Physio/Osteopath is absolutely brilliant.... she is a county level track/XC runner, a good level triathlete and a former pro footballer. She knows the score with runners (ie she doesn't just tell you to rest for 6 weeks as she knows it will be completely ignored!)

However whether you'd want to make the journey across Birmingham is a different matter, she is located in Bedworth (Junction 3 M6)

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I regularly made the journey from Leeds to Stockport to see one of my get-out-of-the-shit guys. It was always worth it.

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Originally Posted by PeteS

Hijacking this thread but my physio came out with the revelation today that I should heel strike when running uphill. I don't think she really knows what we fell runners mean by 'uphill'. Perhaps we have a tendency to understate but surely we get 10% plus gradient cannot be run on anything but your toes!
Should I get a new physio?

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I have spent my last couple of runs observing what my feet instinctively do, as well as doing a little bit of experimentation.

I only land on my heels when running downhill. Most of the rest of the time I land on the flat of my foot, that is, the whole of my foot hits the ground at the same time. When I do this where is my weight concentrated? Probably over the balls of my feet. The slope has to be quite steeply uphill before I am landing on my forefoot - by then I am almost always walking.

99.9% of the time my heel will touch the ground every stride - either first, or the same time as the rest of my foot, or after my forefoot. It is very rare for my heel to hover but not touch down. Is this what the physio meant - heel touching down vs heel striking?

I suspect I run using my quads (vs calfs) more than most people, and stretch out my calfs/Achilles whilst doing so. Quads can take a lot more punishment than calfs, and work much further away from their limit than calfs.

In a perfect world you would let the relevant physio know why you no longer use their services, but I fully understand if you haven't!

I remember how awkward and unnatural it felt when i made the transition from heel striking to fore/midfoot striking. I was born as a heel striker, i had no choice in that. It felt like i was tripping myself up and my studs were scuffing on the ground every step. After about 6-10 runs it started to normalise a bit, your body just naturally adapts and your brain constructs neural networks to improve you bit by bit. Now i have the choice of heel or fore/mid foot, i can choose whichever i think is best and may switch several times a second.