I recently purchased a turbo trainer and although there have been a few threads on this subject, I still can't find much information.
Could anybody recommend any training sessions for the turbo?
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I recently purchased a turbo trainer and although there have been a few threads on this subject, I still can't find much information.
Could anybody recommend any training sessions for the turbo?
Just ride flat out for 20mins.That'll do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken Duck
I posted a similar thread on the old forum and got a couple of ideas I still use.
Warm up then 1 min hard 1min rest 2mins hard 1min rest up to 5 and back down to 1 again then cool down time.
Or I try to keep my cadance above 180 in various gears for a 20 min effort.
Or 5min easygear fast feet 5min hardgear above 85% HR for a 40 minute session.
I do like it in winter just for a change but I sweat buckets.
Hope this helps.
The Honest Answer is; It depends!
What are you hoping to get out of bike training;
Do you do it purely to improve leg strength for fellrunning?
Do you compete in TT or Triathlon, MTB etc?
There are some general tips;
No session above 40-50mins (if you can go longer than this then you have a seriously high boredom threshold!).
Dont just go flat out for 20 minutes (numpty advice!)
Warm up properly, cool down properly.
Make use of the strengths of a turbo trainer (controlled resistance, safe environment) to devise your own program e.g
If you are after pushing up your lactate threshold then do some short intervals in high gears, followed by higher cadence recoveries.
If you want to improve race efficiency, use it to raise your cadence to 85rpm plus (increased cadence always feels wierd at first but soon becomes more natural. Insufficient cadence is the main fault of all amateur competitors and it reduces endurance ability, as well as affecting your run performance if you are doing triathlon).
Hope this helps; give us some more info about yourself if you want anything more detailed.
http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-cobr_informa...sessions.shtml
Some good tips above.
Make sure you stick a good fan in front of you, plenty of liquid and some motivational music helps counter the boredom. If you want to see significant improvements then the turbo is the way to go but it's tough, mentally & physically. You still need to do the work on the road as well!
Druncken Duck I'm not a 'numpty' as that idiot suggests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken Duck
Put it into top gear(you don't even need to warm up, if you haven't got time) and go flat out for 20 minutes.It'll build all components of fitness on a bike, in a reasonable time better than anything else.
Best wishes
"Increase" Cadence to 85 RPM!!??!! You should be riding over 90RPM to start with, you're in trouble if you're using less than this all the time!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyA
Not a recommended training session. Warm up 1st and after or you may do more harm than good.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
Get a singlespeed bike as well, forces you to pedal at different cadences. Respect to people who turbo train, can't do it, it bores me rigid;)
Better still get a fixed :).Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
same i have a terrible attention spanQuote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
I tried it years ago (in the days before the trendy term Turbo Trainer was invented) when I was injured and I have never been so bored in my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylegs
I have several of the Spinervals DVD's, mainly big gear stuff and time trial. Got them cheap from ebay.
Only time i tried it was when i broke my foot and ended up in pot. Found i could still pedal with it on so borrowed a mate's trainer. Soon as pot came off, back on the road, can understand serious athletes using them though;)Quote:
Originally Posted by david
Hmmm; still sounds like a ill-informed suggestion. Warm up is vital to avoid joint and back problems and 'flat out' is just too vague; what gears, what resistance?Quote:
Druncken Duck I'm not a 'numpty' as that idiot suggests.
Put it into top gear(you don't even need to warm up, if you haven't got time) and go flat out for 20 minutes.It'll build all components of fitness on a bike, in a reasonable time better than anything else.
Think i'll stick with 'numpty' (and i dont think i'm alone!!)
Think I've read in the past that 3 miles cycling = 1 mile running. In which case 20 minutes cycling is worth about 7 minutes running. If your goal is to use cycling as a cross training exercise for running then the equivilent of 7 minutes running simply isn't worth the bother.
On the few occasions when I've done sessions on a turbo I've pretty much copied what I'd do in track sessions. 12 x 1/4 mile with 1 min recovery, 6 x 1/2 mile etc. Basically 5k of efforts with a good 20min warm up & warm down. I've found sessions such as above more enjoyable due to the variety, than just cranking out miles.
It actually depends on a lot of things Dom - for example riding on a turbo trainer means you can get away with a lot less than on the roads - there's no coasting. Plus the quality of the work out is greater - it's much harder and you can aim for target heartrates (so if you can maintain an equivalent heartrate as you can running, then the benefits would be the same). Also if you get out of the saddle then it is exactly identical to running as you're supporting your own bodyweight, and doing no coasting, etc.
David said about a fixed - think that would be like perpetual motion on a turbo trainer!!!
some good and not so good advice given... "flat out for 20 minutes without a warm-up" is very suspect. I believe there was an excellent guide to Turbo Training, including 4 key sessions, in the last issue of Cycling Plus written by a very talented up and coming young(ish) writer...
Beating boredom is the key thing... Ipod great either music of get some inspirational pod casts www.ironmantalk.com and www.enduranceplanet.com are both good . Also BBC i-player is an absolute godsend. Managed, with a combination of the above to beat my turbo trainer record and last 2 1/2 hours the other night... blowing a gale so didn't fancy the roads.
Also, totally agree about the fixed. I love riding mine. Nothing better for building cadence (should be 90+ ideally getting towards 100rpm), efficient pedal stroke and strength.. did 2 hours on the fixed yesterday... legs feel nicely worked today.
Don't believe everything your read!20 minutes hard cycling is not the same as 7 minutes hard running.In terms of energy expenditure they're almost the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
The other point is if 7 minutes of hard running isn't worth the bother, why do the first 6-7 400s of your session of 12x400s?
Im having a day running and a day turbo until Im confident my knee is 100% to start upping the running miles.
Nothing too technical for me dont know anything about cadnece, heart rate etc.
Just put 8 songs on my Ipod and rode,
Jamie
NicklasQuote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
Why don't you tell us why 20 minutes flat out without a warmup is 'suspect.' What sessions do you advocate, that are better than My suggestion.Tell us and then we can debate it properly.Just dismissing an idea without reasons is foolish, and from what I know about you, I don't think you're that.
Anybody have a turbo trainer sitting in the garage they are not using? I have been looking for a second hand one for a while now, but the ones on e-bay are still going for £40-£50. Cheers.
Good evening Drunken duck, just done turbo session tonight. 15 mins fast spinning 90rpm gradually increasing resistance then 20 min on pushing big gears then 15 min spinning. Think the bigger gears lower cadence is helping with the steep climbs while running, hope that helps.
OK.... first of all no warm-up. Going straight into a hard near maximal effort will increase the risk of muscle and joint injuries. Also, because the enzymes involved in energy production will not be at their optimal working temperature you'll struggle to get up to and maintain effort. For the sake of a progressive 5-10 minutes warm-up you'll get much more out of your 20 minutes blast. Second, there are much more interesting, structured and beneficial (which is key to keep up motivation on a turbo) things to do then just spinning away like mad for 20 minutes. Using a heart-rate monitor/wattage to monitor effort and working intervals etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
I ride with a lot of good riders (sub 55 25's,etc) who use the turbo on a regular basis and none of them have heard of the '20mins go like hell routine'. Most follow a structured routine using heart rate & wattage as a measuring tool and ALWAYS starts/ends with a warm up/down.
Graeme Obree did.Have you heard of him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ady In Accy
Nicklas I'll deal with your points.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
Firstly injuries are caused when muscles produce more force than the tendons etc can take.Since the forces involved in a 20minute TT are quite low, there is no risk of injury, provided the athlete doesn't start suddenly.
Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?
Interesting!Since when has getting superfit been interesting.Painful more like.
Did you find your 2 1/2 hours pounding away on a turbo interesting?That would numb My mind.
One last question. which session requires more power and why.20 minutes flat out or 20 minutes of intervals?
- But you are saying to start suddenly and not warm-up
- 'fraid not about the enzymes, hence why a warm-up is so essential
- training should be as interesting as possible, one of the key things for maintaining motivation.
- no I didn't, but I found a happy place, some good stuff on BBC I-player and just did it.
-Depends on the intensity of the intervals...
-Have heard of Graham Obree.. and he did/does warm-up before a TT
anyway some sessions for those who are interested.
Session One: Thirty Minute Time-Trial (50 minutes total)
Not so much a training session as more of a test. Perform it every month or so to see how your training is progressing. Warm-up for ten minutes starting on the small chain-ring, largest rear sprocket (lowest gear) and medium resistance. After every two minutes knock your gear up one sprocket aiming to maintain a cadence of 80-100 rpm. After ten minutes shift to the big ring (keep a medium resistance and you should be in the middle of the rear block) and ride as hard as you can for thirty minutes. Cool down for 10 minutes reversing the warm-up routine. Record the distance you achieved in the 30 minutes and try to beat it next time.
Session Two: Threshold Booster (41-65 minutes total)
3-5 X 5 minutes with 3 minutes recovery
This session is designed to raise your Lactate Threshold and your ability to perform at or near it. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big chain-ring and work hard for five minutes (aiming for a heart rate 15-25 beats below your maximum). At the end of the five minutes drop to the small chain-ring, drop the resistance and spin easily for three minutes. Repeat this work/recovery cycle for three to six reps depending on ability. Cool down as in session one.
Session Three: Power Blast (37-57 minutes total)
5-10 X 1 minute with 3 minutes recovery
This session will boost your explosive strength and power allowing you to blast up short climbs or win the sprints to town signs. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big ring and your smallest sprocket. Sprint flat out for one-minute initially building momentum out of the saddle before sitting down and carrying the speed through. At the end of the minute spin really easily in a low gear against low resistance for three minutes. Repeat this work/recovery cycle for five to ten reps depending on ability. Cool down as in session one.
Session Four: One Legged Wonder (40 minutes)
5 X 1 minute left leg. 5 X 1 minute right leg
Definitely only for the turbo trainer. This is more of a technique rather than a fitness session although it will help to even out any imbalances between your legs. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Stay in the same gear/resistance as at the end of the warm-up but cycle one-legged for the next ten minutes alternating one-minute left and one-minute right. Concentrate on maintaining a high (80-100rpm) cadence and on a smooth fluid technique. Next shift into the big ring and ride moderately hard with both legs for ten minutes keeping up the same cadence and the same feel of fluidity. Cool down as in session one.
Session Five: Stairway to Heaven (42 minutes)
3 X 6 minutes of ascending difficulty with 2 minutes recovery
One for building hill strength and mental toughness. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big ring but select a moderate sprocket eg.22. Resistance should be at about a third of your turbos maximum. Ride moderately hard. After three minutes, shift up two gears and try to maintain the same cadence for a further two minutes. Finally shift up another two gears and ride hard for a minute out of the saddle. Drop to the small chain-ring, drop the resistance and recover with easy spinning for two minutes. Shift back to the big ring but this time perform the “3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute” sequence with two more clicks of resistance. Recover for two minutes again and then work through the “3,2,1” once more again cranking it up by two clicks. Cool down as in session one. Be warned, this is a toughie.
Mr Leigh, you obviously believe in your 20 min hard session. Post it on the forum below and see what sort of feedback it gets. There are some top lads read/post on there who do a bit on the turbo. Post us back a link to the thread in a few days and lets have a look at the responses.
Yes I have heard of Graeme Obree, why don't you reference your point if you have one and not just bandy names about?
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php
Nicklas building up to time trial speed is hardly 'suddenly.' It takes about 10 seconds.To attempt to get to 25miles per hour in one second would be dangerous.I never advocated that.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
All you say about the enzymes is 'fraid not.' Tell me why, why is a warm up essential to optimum enzyme function.All your doing is disagreeing without giving reasons.If you don't know, why don't you just say 'it's tradition' or something similar?
Now I've just looked in Graeme Obree's book.For his first hour record, he rode 3 laps of the track,hardly a warm up!There are other examples in the book as well.
Now I don't know whether it's important to warm up or not.In some sports it is, but we're talking cycling here.There are so many examples where athletes haven't warmed up, and didn't injure themselves.Or performed just as well, as they would have with the warm-up.
Last point:Depends on what?Tell me the interval session and intensity?Make it 20 minutes worth so it's a fair comparison.Then we'll debate it properly, your 20minutes of intervals vs my 20 minutes flat out.
This is why i find this forum funny,your all mad :D ,keep it coming
Hello Ady!The person who started this thread, just wanted some session advice.I gave him a session, that would give him results.Others can do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ady In Accy
The problem is, that some criticised me, without giving reasons(they still haven't now).I don't ever remember criticising others for giving training suggestions, because the person asking for advice has to decide for themselves.
You mention some lads on here who use the turbo.I'll bet a lot of them have ridden a 10 mile TT, in close to 20 mins as well.Not one of them(if they have any sense) will come on here, and say it didn't have any effect on them.
As to Obree, I've made the point in my response to Nicklas.
Look Christopher stop getting all testy and so defensive.. someone, I can't remember who now, wrote in at the start of this thread and asked for some advice on using a turbo. A few people wrote back giving some good advice and then you gave, in my opinion and several others, an overly simplistic and not very helpful answer.... regardless of what you say, "20 minutes flat out without a warm-up" is not a suitable or constructive advice for a novice.
anyway.....
Performance will be improved, as an appropriate warm up will result in an:
Increased speed of contraction and relaxation of warmed muscles
Dynamic exercises reduce muscle stiffness
Greater economy of movement because of lowered viscous resistance within warmed muscles
Facilitated oxygen utilization by warmed muscles because hemoglobin releases oxygen more readily at higher muscle temperatures (enzymes!!!)
Facilitated nerve transmission and muscle metabolism at higher temperatures; a specific warm up can facilitate motor unit recruitment required in subsequent all out activity
Increased blood flow through active tissues as local vascular beds dilate, increasing metabolism and muscle temperatures
Allows the heart rate get to a workable rate for beginning exercise
Mentally focused on the training or competition
without wishing to get lardy-daa I think with a Masters in Sports Science I do know the theory behind a warm-up but frankly I spend all day writing on health/exercise and don't want to spend my spare time doing it as well... come on just admit it was a silly flippant comment on your part... I'm done!
Fleeter we might just reach the truth soon, what do you think:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
we'll see,it happens all the time,someone posts there thoughts about a subject and gets ripped to pieces by everyone else! It's madness,people take things far to far :D , i agree with you
Having a masters degree doesn't neccessarily make you right Nicklas!I don't even need to answer the points you make above individually.All I'll say to finish on, is if all the above was true, why have the same athletes performed just as well without a warm-up?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikalas
He still hasn't answered the questions I asked Fleeter.What they're saying is the same as me saying, a 5-7km flat out run is useless.The truth is of course, from My experience(14.405km/19.04 four miles)that 5km time trials were the most effective training I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeter
Regards
CL; first it was just funny, but now you're really starting to worry us!
Still, dont let the overwhelming weight of scientific and professional opinion deter you; you keep digging mate!
Graeme Obree interview
...although I reckon Obree was something of an under achiever. Imagine what he could have done with a decent warm up?
Under achiever?Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
The day before he succeeded at the hour record,he actually failed!so the answer to the question is: a lot worse.
Then again I'm not naive enough to believe this was the only factor, in his poorer performance the day before.