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To be piloted in Manchester.
They couldn't get us to agree to the congestion charges, then they think we are going to give them £30 for an identity card, stupid goverment! Online it says £60...
Knowing that if it hits off in Manchester which i doubt, it will be then piloted elsewhere...like they did for smoking in pubs!!!
What do you think?
As a fellow Manc I can honestly say that £60 is a small price to pay for ........ a new pair of Inov8 X-Talons!
As for the ID card and subsequent fee, can't see people parting with hard earned cash!
What do you gain from the card?
Would we need to present them to the administrators to gain access to the forum; thereby doing away with the comfort/safety of the nom de plume (or indeed, several)?
At least you would always know who you were when you woke up in the morning
No problem with the idea of carrying an id card myself....driving license is practically that anyway....but they can get f!^*"d if they think I will fork out ANY amount to do it. £60 for it is ridiculous. :eek:
Why not chips like dogs?
ITS SO WE CAN CHECK AT THE INTER-COUNTIES CHAMPS:eek:
Signed
A Yorkshireman;)
In the other countries I lived in having ID card is considered the most normal thing in the world. People would not imagine there are countries without id cards.
How does a person prove his/her identity without identity card?
Passport or driving licence? Many don't have them.
To prove my identity or address here I was asked 1) my mother's name, 2) my gas bill. They don't prove my identity or my address.
So, how does a person prove his/her identity without id card?
He doesn't.
After 30 odd years carrying around a Forces ID card, I felt strangely lost without it when I left. Having it was accepted by all as normal.
Will I be in the queue to pay for a civilian one - I do not think so
The main reason for this Gambatte is the fact of how it is worded, its a pilot which is infact a trial, which is then voluntary to have one, but it will cost us £60 each for the priviledge...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambatte
If the goverment want them, then they should be free, but even that i personally will not agree too.
We are in a credit crunch, hardly afford our food shopping, then they think oh we need more money, we shall get it from the little people.
So yes i can see why its okay in other countries for this card, in USA my friend said it just is, and thats it.
Nice to see you Gambatte x
So they decided to trial the scheme in the city where people gave their lives to establish true democracy :rolleyes:
They could have gone the whole hog and launched it at the Free Trade Hall (hotel).
So.. where was the true democracy established again...?:confused:
I take it you didn't follow the link in my previous post........Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
I agree (partly), with what you wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss
But still, I can't get an answer to my concern: how does one prove identity without id card?
TV licence, gas bill, my Mum name, saying my date of birth cannot prove my identity or address, but banks and other places still think they do. Of course committing fraud is as simple as it actually is.
(true, a badly made id system would make fraud even easier, but then the point is the system must be enough robust, not to avoid it at all.)
Expect to see the cost of the cards increase after the trial period as the government seeks to fill the black hole it's created in the public finances.
For what purposes are you meaning?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambatte
For credit, you generally need a photo ID (passport / driving licence) and proof of address (utility bill / bank statement). Now to get a passport or driving licence, your identity has been checked already and both the bank and utility provider will have done credit reference checks on you when opening your account with them.
Of course, after providing those pieces of ID they will still do a credit search on you against the electoral roll.
It's not perfect - but there are a number of checks and you'd need to bypass them all.
It's only normal because people are forced to comply. If the individual was given a choice without fear of prejudice, then I think most wouldn't carry it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambatte
Now you asked the question, 'how does a person prove his/her identity without an identity card?'
The answer you gave was he doesn't, which is wrong. A person's identity can be established by DNA or fingerprints. That doesn't imply you then have the right to hammer an inked finger down on a sheet of paper. What it does mean is that in situations of wrong doing, the culprit's identity can be established.
For instance: if someone runs into the back of your car how do you ascertain identity. The person could give you the wrong name and address and the car could be cloned. In these situations I think we should exchange fingerprints as well as names and addresses. That way you're more certain of getting the culprit to pay the damage.
I think I'd rather just take the risk. The kind of person who did that is hardly going to give you their fingerprints are they, so you're putting yourself at risk of physical attackQuote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
The western democracies are decadent. Everyone knows that democracy is a rubber word that can be bounced around to mean anything to anyone.
What we end up with is the scene set today. Legalised looting initiated by morally bankrupt politicians, who are positioned by those wanting the unearned.
The I.D scheme is such an example of the above. Create a perceived threat by wrong policy I.e. foreign policy, then scare people(terrorism) into believing they need controlling to make things better. After that use the money from the scheme to buy votes.
When they run out of that money they create another scheme, and the needle returns to the start of the song, and we all sing along like before.
1,2,3 and nothing ever happens........
I agree with all.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
But how do the many people without passport or driving licence prove their identity?
Well then don't carry a fingerprint kit around with you. If it was a legal requirement to exchange identities then we should be entitled to take fingerprints. The fact that they might drive off is irrelevant in the context of today.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
The other idea that everyone who doesn't have insurance is going to attack you for asking for their fingerprints is nonsense. Those sort of people don't stop anyway.
I think Grouse was trying to be ironic, Heathens.
Getting their numberplates is enough - if they've cloned their plates, they sure as hell aren't going to give you their fingerprints! Aside from that, why should you have my fingerprints anyway? Who knows what an unscrupulous person could do with them given any future technological advances.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
So what's the point in fingerprinting people - if people are driving their cars legally, you get their car registration. If they're not, you're not going to get their fingerprints anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher leigh
I drive legally but there's no way I would give my fingerprints to anyone at the roadside. My mate was in a taxi in Leeds and a car pulled out in front of them; the taxi driver actually steered into the car to create a collision and then tried to get the passengers to claim for personal injury through their friend's firm of solicitors. They were dodgy as hell and illustrates my point about you not knowing who you are giving details to.
I'd love to see you approach some (for example) armed robbers driving a stolen car with cloned plates that can't drive off (due to the collision) asking for finger prints!
http://www.aboutidentitytheft.co.uk/...raphic-id.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Gambatte
Employee ID card + birth certificate
Student ID card + birth certificate.
Outside of those requirements, you're probably not going to get credit anyway
I'm aware of that, but Peterloo was a turning point in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Margarine
You reckon?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
Copies of birth certificates aren't always valid, and I've no idea where my original is because my parents lost it. Try getting security clearance for a job when you have neither a passport nor an original birth certifcate - it's a right pain in the ass. 23 years of paying tax and national insurance and suddenly I don't exist!
Bizzarely I can use the birth certificate copy to get a passport, which then, along with a driving licence, is sufficient to apply for security clearance.
If you don't drive and don't travel abroad in this country you're pretty much screwed, so you might as well give everyone an ID card anyway. I won't be paying for one though.
All birth certificates are copies of the original entry in the register of births. It sounds to me that in your case it's that someone's being a jobsworth.Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Even the ones I got when I went to register my son recently said 'Copy' on them.
they were going to start with Man Utd supporters but they couldn't find any in Manchester
Oy, there are plenty of Man U supporters in Manchester!Quote:
Originally Posted by Man from Del Monte
So how do the people without passports or driving licences prove their ID when they obtain their ID card? You could claim to be anybody:rolleyes:
It's not the actual ID card bit of plastic that I find the main worry - it's the huge, expensive, insecure database behind it, that links to other databases (health, tax, ANPR cameras, credit cards, internet use, phone calls), that will be accessible by pretty much all and sundry with very few checks. Add in the mission creep seen with eg RIPA (introduced to combat terrorism and serious crime - used to spy on parents, people binning rubbish, etc), or anti-terrorist legislation (used to prevent lawful protests, eject an elderly heckler from the Labour conference etc) and it's pretty obvious that the government is planning a huge data-mining exercise in order to suppress any sort of public protests or dissent.
Hang on a minute. I'm the paranoiac round here.
Acronym's really worry me. What's ANPR? and RIPA?
(I'm not sure I really want to know...)
Don't worry. CL wants to handle your fingertips at the road side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
That must make you feel better.
Oh aye. I tremble in anticipa
tion.
He'll be after your saliva swab as well soon ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by millipede
The question was asked earlier how one obtains the identity of a person. The answer given by the same person was that you can't. I've demonstrated that you can by the 2 forementioned processes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeathens
When in an accident you're required to exchange details I.e. identities. Names and addresses won't always do, neither will jotting down number plates. Exchanging fingerprints is a simple and honest way of establishing identity. I've seen it work in America for people who want to hire a car.
A person walks in to the car hire and says "I'd like to hire a car please." The Man on the other side of the counter says "sure that'll be 200bucks and a set of prints please." He doesn't give a stuff if the fellow has an I.D card, if he wants the car he'll have to give his prints.
The thing is Heathens you only associate the taking of fingerprints with criminal activities so you cannot conceive of an alternative process involving consenting adults.
This is why in my example above the hire man asked for prints. He knows full well that I.D cards can be faked. The fact that I.D cards are compulsary doesn't make any difference to him. To establish I.D he gets their prints. No prints no car!Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie
The claim that ID cards helps in the War on Terror is weak even by New Labour standards and we all remember the Iraq WMD file! We allow in so many so-called students with no background checks and tracking once in UK or on departure that electronic tagging the rest of us would serve no purpose. Secondly, if home-grown suicide bombers move to a target with an ID card does that make them any the less dangerous?
I once tried to use my then military ID to buy £200 of US$ from the Post Office to go on holiday. That card was good enough to get me into five (yes, 5) Government sponsored wars but the Post Office refused me the money on terrorist grounds because a UK military ID is not on the approved list of identification.
I rather fear that Jackie is closer to the truth, this is a ploy to gather data for 'other' purposes and make a few quid on the side as well.