How to train for fell running

I do some trail running with some moderately steep hills, and I would like to try some fell running too. I always run solo, so have no-one to advise me. I've been looking for books or training plans for fell running but can't find anything suitable. As I'm fast approaching 50, and no athlete, I need to be sensible about it. How often can you safely do hill training, and what other forms of training do you do (such as road/trail running, or cross training?) I'd be grateful if someone could advise me or point me in the direction of some good training plans or books on the subject. Thanks

Liz

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Originally Posted by LizMint

I'd be grateful if someone could advise me or point me in the direction of some good training plans or books on the subject. Thanks

Liz

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Hi Liz.
Welcome to the forum. :)

This is one of the best books you could read about training.

Hi Liz - Welcome to the forum! :)

I took up fell-running 3 years ago aged 42
I almost always run solo too
I honestly don't think there are any "tricks" to it - just find some hills and build up distance/ascent/speed and try rougher and rougher terrain
I'm rubbish but keen, and have got progressively (albeit slowly) better and have loved every minute of it

just get stuck in!

I reckon this has a lot of really useful information in it:

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fell-Hill-Ru...9963708&sr=8-6

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as it advises a cautious approach to hill work, which is in line with your post.

Si

edit: just noticed it's out of stock though.

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Originally Posted by DazTheSlug

I'm rubbish

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Take no notice of Daft Pony Daz, this part of his post is rubbish, if your out there running up and down hills your a winner;)
Everything else he says is reet, welcome to the forum:)

Just build it up steadily, listen to your body and do as little or as much as you want, as you can see, you'll get loads of advice off friendly folk on here;)

Just run. Any off road running is good prep for fells. There is an element of fellrunning that can be a bit technical and that's mostly to do with foot placements like which stone will rock and when to wade and when to jump etc. You'll develop a nouse about such things the more you get on the hills, but I find trogging along a wild (though flat) river bank contrbutes to this. I'm finding though that I lose out in races because where I live is flat so I've got to seek out some hills to climb to get that part of the game sorted.

Hi Liz,

welcome to the forum...they don't all bite :rolleyes:

Are you happy running solo and wanting to keep that as such? If you let us know where you are based there will be lots of people that can suggest routes (other than trails if it's fells you're after) or will meet up for muddy boggy peaty fun if that's what you want?

The best way, as already stated, is to get out there, take it steady and enjoy it :)

Wow, fantastic response - thanks everyone! I've ordered both books recommended because they both looked like they'd be helpful. The reason I'm so cautious is because when I started trail running on hillier terrain, I was plagued with shin splints and had to stop running altogether for a while. I don't want a repeat of that. I live in the South Lakes, so I've no shortage of hills, but finding somewhere flat to run is a real problem! I only do hilly sessions a couple of times a week at the moment, but these involve some really steep rough sections akin to fell running, so moving on to fell running seems like a natural progression. I might try and get another hilly session in there when/if I know my legs can stand it.

DazTheSlug - I bet I'm a whole lot more rubbish than you.
Emmilou - I think I am happy solo at the moment, but will keep in mind your offer - thanks.

Liz

Hi Liz, welcome to the Forum.
Depending on where you are in the South Lakes the tow-path along the Kendal-Lancaster Canal is a great option if you're looking for really flat, off-road running.

I'm way past 50 now and making big efforts to get on the come-back trail after a long time out of the sport. I've found that I just don't recover if I try to do too many hilly sessions in a week and usually end up demoralised and prone to catching bugs. Running on the tow-path gives me the opportunity to put in the session that I want: fast, slow, intervals etc on a soft surface but with virtually no hills.

I usually park up in the lay-by near the Hideaway Cafe on the A65 (about 500m East of M6 Junction 36). From there you can go either South towards Carnforth (Tewitfield and back is about half-marathon distance and a total delight) or North back towards Kendal (still flat for a while but not so pretty as they've drained the canal beyond Stainton). If you want to add some hills then the Limestone Link bridleway will take you up onto Farleton Knott and the Hutton Roof fell race route.

At the moment it's pretty muddy, but nothing like as muddy as the local fells. Give me a shout if you decide to visit and need any further direction. Enjoy!:)

Welcome Liz:)

Just a couple of quick questions,

Do you want to train for an actual race or event?

If your running solo on the fells what is the extra you are looking for?

Enjoy your running;)

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Originally Posted by DazTheSlug

Hi Liz - Welcome to the forum! :)

I took up fell-running 3 years ago aged 42
I almost always run solo too
I honestly don't think there are any "tricks" to it - just find some hills and build up distance/ascent/speed and try rougher and rougher terrain
I'm rubbish but keen, and have got progressively (albeit slowly) better and have loved every minute of it

just get stuck in!

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Not trying to pass off someone elses wisdom as my own here, but this is how i see it too. If you're amazingly good and 10yrs old then you'd benefit from getting your head in a book to set up your future, but otherwise just get out and run.

Hill reps are good, try some of those, but do watch for repetetive strain injury creeping up on you and act on the signs.

Sorry to burst in on this but i have also taken the advise and asked Santa for a copy of this book, as i am a very very novice fell runner, and i often don't push myself as much as i should, maybe a book will point me in the right direction.
I was reliant on my X pushing me forward but he tended to bully me.

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Originally Posted by Pantisocial

Sorry to burst in on this but i have also taken the advise and asked Santa for a copy of this book, as i am a very very novice fell runner, and i often don't push myself as much as i should, maybe a book will point me in the right direction.
I was reliant on my X pushing me forward but he tended to bully me.

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My tip....set of too fast and try and stick at it.
Worst a treat and you suffer like hell.:D

Thanks for that Tinyman. I'm further west than that (out towards Ulverston way) but it sounds like a good route for a nice flat run. I might just go and try it out. Cheers

Liz

Thanks to everyone who replied. I'm really bowled over by the friendliness of the forum.

I can see the wisdom in just getting out there and building up slowly (that's more or less what I've been doing, so it's nice to have it confirmed that that's a good way of going about it), so in truth I probably don't need a book, but I do like a good read and I might pick up a few tips. I'm not at the moment training for an event or race (I wouldn't rule it out for the future), but I'd just like to see myself progress a bit for my own gratification.

Al Fowler - what are you trying to do - kill me? I'm just an old creaky bird y'know!

Liz

Liz its a common mistake many on here fall into - someone comes on for some advice on running in the hills and gets told to join in a race in the hills. Fell racing isn't necessarily fell running remember. When I run in the hills the whole thing is a superb wilderness, terrain and weather experience, sometimes with great views and scenery. When I race though its a usually very painful wilderness, terrain and weather experience sometimes with great views and scenery that I have no time or inclination to look at... but with a load of nutters to share the pain with :D

Hi Liz,

Although he is an American and not a fell runner, there is some interesting stuff to be found on Joe Henderson’s website

http://joehenderson.com/

The guy has a lifetime of experience. Loads of people over the years have scoffed at his LSD (Long,Slow,Distance) way of life, but it works for lots of people as well, me included.

In reality long isn’t necessarily long and slow is relative.

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Thanks to everyone who replied. I'm really bowled over by the friendliness of the forum.

I can see the wisdom in just getting out there and building up slowly (that's more or less what I've been doing, so it's nice to have it confirmed that that's a good way of going about it), so in truth I probably don't need a book, but I do like a good read and I might pick up a few tips. I'm not at the moment training for an event or race (I wouldn't rule it out for the future), but I'd just like to see myself progress a bit for my own gratification.

Al Fowler - what are you trying to do - kill me? I'm just an old creaky bird y'know!

Liz

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Liz, if you're near ulverston then you're in perfect country: the dunnerdale fells would make perfect nursery slopes. Just go and have a jog around them
and enjoy it - if you've got a bit of hill-walking experience you're unlikely to get into much trouble round there, even in winter.

Look at the anniversary waltz as a target for a first fell-race. :)

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Originally Posted by Stolly

Liz its a common mistake many on here fall into - someone comes on for some advice on running in the hills and gets told to join in a race in the hills. Fell racing isn't necessarily fell running remember. When I run in the hills the whole thing is a superb wilderness, terrain and weather experience, sometimes with great views and scenery. When I race though its a usually very painful wilderness, terrain and weather experience sometimes with great views and scenery that I have no time or inclination to look at... but with a load of nutters to share the pain with :D

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Stolly - that's a really interesting point you make. I know that racing motivates a lot of runners, probably most runners, but I just don't get it, and never have! I suppose we all run for different reasons. The reason I run is because I like being out there on my own, first thing in the morning when there's no-one else about and I can enjoy the scenery and the wildlife and the feeling of being part of it all. Other than just enjoying it, my aims in running are I to be as fit as I possibly can be, and I don't think racing is necessary for that. I wouldn't rule it out for the future as I have nothing against racing per se and I keep thinking I ought to give it a go, but I have no burning desire to. Your comment is the first time I've ever heard anyone express similar feelings to my own about running, but maybe there's lots more of you out there that I haven't met yet.

Liz

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Originally Posted by Trog

Hi Liz,

Although he is an American and not a fell runner, there is some interesting stuff to be found on Joe Henderson’s website

http://joehenderson.com/

The guy has a lifetime of experience. Loads of people over the years have scoffed at his LSD (Long,Slow,Distance) way of life, but it works for lots of people as well, me included.

In reality long isn’t necessarily long and slow is relative.

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Trog - Joe Henderson looks like my kind of guy. I don't do fast, so his way looks like it might suit me. I've had a quick look at his site, there's loads of archives I'll have to have a look through. I don't know why anyone would scoff at anyone else's running philosophy, we're all different thankfully, it'd be pretty boring if we weren't.

Liz

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Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo

Liz, if you're near ulverston then you're in perfect country: the dunnerdale fells would make perfect nursery slopes. Just go and have a jog around them
and enjoy it - if you've got a bit of hill-walking experience you're unlikely to get into much trouble round there, even in winter.

Look at the anniversary waltz as a target for a first fell-race. :)

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Thanks, I like it round there so will give that a go. The Anniversary Waltz looks tough :eek:. Here's a question for everyone, because it's something I'm not quite clear about - what's the definition of a fell run and when does a trail run become a fell run?

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Here's a question for everyone, because it's something I'm not quite clear about - what's the definition of a fell run and when does a trail run become a fell run?

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The UK:Athletics official descriptions are:

Rule 400 A fell race is one run of fell, hill or mountain terrain.

Rule 602 A trail race is primarily along footpaths or bridleways on Ordnance Survey maps as 'Public Rights of Way'.

In there is very little difference between many fell and trail races. Only die-in-the-mud traditionalists (and there are many on this forum) want fell running to be a separate sport in this country.

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Thanks, I like it round there so will give that a go. The Anniversary Waltz looks tough :eek:. Here's a question for everyone, because it's something I'm not quite clear about - what's the definition of a fell run and when does a trail run become a fell run?

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yes you're right, it's not the easiest out there, so I should say that does depend how fit / confident you are :)

Fell races are generally unflagged: defined only by checkpoints between which the route choice is your own. So, particularly in the longer races and outside of summer months, weather and navigation can become key.

As fell races are run over higher altitudes and often the best way is off any paths that do exist, the terrain is generally much rougher - whether bog or rock or bracken or whatever - and steeper.

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Trog - Joe Henderson looks like my kind of guy. I don't do fast, so his way looks like it might suit me. I've had a quick look at his site, there's loads of archives I'll have to have a look through. I don't know why anyone would scoff at anyone else's running philosophy, we're all different thankfully, it'd be pretty boring if we weren't.

Liz

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I think it depends how much time you have on your hands. If you don't have time to do all the distance in training, then running shorter, faster training runs can be a good shortcut to getting fit enough to tackle longer runs.

I personally think that once you've got some endurance in your legs, then by far the best way to improve your times is either speed sessions or hill reps.

Hey up Liz

If fitness is your goal racing will help. For me racing is just for fun but it gives me a goal and i always push myself much harder in a race than when on my own.

Out in the hills alone, with friends or the hound is just as enjoyable but different

All the best
sbrt

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Here's a question for everyone, because it's something I'm not quite clear about - what's the definition of a fell run and when does a trail run become a fell run?

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A definition might be that in a fell race you will end up walking at some point(s) because it is too steep or too rough to run.

The FRA definition is a race that has at least 100ft of climb per mile length, and some genuine "fell" terrain. Define a "fell" and you can define fell running!

If it's registered with the FRA it must be a fell race, right?

If it passes through fell terrain without leaving a good path, is it really a fell race? (e.g. Snowdon race).

You're never going to get a definitive answer on this one I think!

By the way, good luck:)

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Thanks, I like it round there so will give that a go. The Anniversary Waltz looks tough :eek:. Here's a question for everyone, because it's something I'm not quite clear about - what's the definition of a fell run and when does a trail run become a fell run?

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Usually a fell race includes at least one stupidly bonkers cliff wall of an ascent (the Anniversary Waltz's 2,000 ft straight up the side of Robinson being a prime example) and at least one stupidly bonkers descent (coming off of Catbells in the Anniversary Waltz being a prime example) :)

"Die - in -the - mud traditionalist"

Cool.

ooh - ooh! suggested race = Black Combe
(which I believe will be on Mar.14th)
I'll be up recce'ing it at some point, as well as Duddon Valley and the southern end of the Cumbrian Traverse route
so keep a look-out on the Recce section if interested... :)

Black Coombe looks do-able, plus it's familiar territory - I see it every day on my way into work, and I've walked up it a couple of times.

Thanks for your replies, it's all becoming a little clearer -
fell running= steep/rough/stupidly-bonkers

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Thanks for your replies, it's all becoming a little clearer -
fell running= steep/rough/stupidly-bonkers

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That's about the size of it Liz, all done at your own pace;)

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Originally Posted by tinyman

Hi Liz, welcome to the Forum.
Depending on where you are in the South Lakes the tow-path along the Kendal-Lancaster Canal is a great option if you're looking for really flat, off-road running.

I'm way past 50 now and making big efforts to get on the come-back trail after a long time out of the sport. I've found that I just don't recover if I try to do too many hilly sessions in a week and usually end up demoralised and prone to catching bugs. Running on the tow-path gives me the opportunity to put in the session that I want: fast, slow, intervals etc on a soft surface but with virtually no hills.

I usually park up in the lay-by near the Hideaway Cafe on the A65 (about 500m East of M6 Junction 36). From there you can go either South towards Carnforth (Tewitfield and back is about half-marathon distance and a total delight) or North back towards Kendal (still flat for a while but not so pretty as they've drained the canal beyond Stainton). If you want to add some hills then the Limestone Link bridleway will take you up onto Farleton Knott and the Hutton Roof fell race route.

At the moment it's pretty muddy, but nothing like as muddy as the local fells. Give me a shout if you decide to visit and need any further direction. Enjoy!:)

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Thanks for reminding me about towpaths. I am trying to build up my mileage for the zillionth time, and had quite forgotten those long ago jogs along the Leeds-Liverpool on dark, dirty winter afternoons, gazing across fields of root vegetables towards Kirkstall Abbey. Did 8 miles there on Monday, which is a lot for me. Shocked to find how much has been tarmacked, nice for cyclists but too hard underfoot for me, I really felt the effects of the jarring next day. So I'll be using my buspass to start a bit further out next time. But such a good idea - the mud limited in depth and the miles exactly measured, no need for a foot pod! And lots of people to distract me from the suffering - even admiring remarks from walkers!!!

Hi Liz,
Why not tag along on a social run with your local club - Black Combe Runners? They meet every Tuesday evening somewhere in the South Lakes area. A fair number of the club members are based around Ulverston. Good way to get introduced to fell running and gain confidence for attempting races. Have a look at their website for details of where to meet.

Up hills and Downhills get the technique right on both of these will help immeasurably and do some flat speedwork. Fellrunning is definitely the most technical of all running and at times contains the least running but it is the most beautiful and the most purest form of running as what we do bar carrying some sort of weapon is what our ancestors would have done on the fells. This is why i feel so many people connect to it as it may well be shared genetic memory.

Margarine does carry a weapon. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Grouse

Margarine does carry a weapon. :eek:

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is it licensed !!!!

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Originally Posted by LizMint

Stolly - that's a really interesting point you make. I know that racing motivates a lot of runners, probably most runners, but I just don't get it, and never have! I suppose we all run for different reasons. The reason I run is because I like being out there on my own, first thing in the morning when there's no-one else about and I can enjoy the scenery and the wildlife and the feeling of being part of it all. Other than just enjoying it, my aims in running are I to be as fit as I possibly can be, and I don't think racing is necessary for that. I wouldn't rule it out for the future as I have nothing against racing per se and I keep thinking I ought to give it a go, but I have no burning desire to. Your comment is the first time I've ever heard anyone express similar feelings to my own about running, but maybe there's lots more of you out there that I haven't met yet.

Liz

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Hi Liz

Remember fell races don't have to be all about racing. I see it as training to improve my own running and climb new mountains. I'm in my first year of fell races and just concentrate on finishing as fast as I can. Then next year I'll enter again and try beat my time. I doubt I'll ever win any prizes but entering races means I get to run routes that I would never do otherwise and push myself harder against others. Hopefully this will improve my pace.

i found this a very good article http://uk.srichinmoyraces.org/resour...ers/fellracing