Today's Sally

[noel]

I can recall reading that we get the most benefit from the first 2 sets to failure of any resistance exercise - the sets after that do little or nothing in terms of increasing power and strength. But - but - those who did more sets regularly were better at doing more sets! So it depends how the results are measured.

One longstanding rule is to lift what you can lift between 8 and 12 times - if you can't lift a given weight 8 times, lower the weight; if you can lift it more than 12 times, increase the weight. Weight, or difficulty. Doing press-ups from the ground is rather more difficult than press-ups from 6 inches or so above the ground, as are press-ups done using hanging hoops.

My 2 sets of press-ups to failure last week: 42, then 36. Today: 41, then 41. I need to increase the difficulty - I will start with doing them from the ground.

If you're aiming for 8-12 before failure, you need someone light to sit on you while you're doing them. Then encourage them to put on weight as you get stronger. Good luck

[PiesAreGood]

If you're aiming for 8-12 before failure, you need someone light to sit on you while you're doing them. Then encourage them to put on weight as you get stronger. Good luck

At what point is it acceptable to swap out the older child for the younger/lighter model? :P

[Marco]

However, there must be a lot more to the physiology (stating the obvious!!!) if fewer than 8 reps is insufficient for efficient strength building.

We had this discussion, a couple of years ago, on a different thread. I mention it again, as I had great results on fewer than 8 reps.

When I started fell racing, I discovered that my legs were not strong enough on the descents; they were physically buckling below me as I chased the leaders. In the absence of any real hills locally, I used heavy weights and 1 set of 3-6 squats to build up strength without weight (using competitive weightlifting techniques). If I couldn't do 3 the weight was too heavy; if I could do 6 it was too light and I'd add one kg for next time.

This worked really well for me, (although I appreciate it might not work that well for everyone). I got a lot stronger, without adding any body weight, and it only took a couple of minutes three times a week.

[Travs]

Pure strength work is generally less than 8 reps.... more like 3-5 seems to be accepted.

Endurance would be 12+ (i tend to do 15-20 reps).

Of course there's a balance... i find i can't fit in pure strength work on top of 70 miles a week, so do what i can endurance-wise.

[Mike T]

Pure strength work is generally less than 8 reps.... more like 3-5 seems to be accepted.

Endurance would be 12+ (i tend to do 15-20 reps).

Of course there's a balance... i find i can't fit in pure strength work on top of 70 miles a week, so do what i can endurance-wise.

From my reading, strength - for a one off maximum effort - seems to benefit most from fewer than 8 reps to failure; endurance similarly seems to improve most with more than 12 reps to failure; 8 to 12 reps seems to be the sweet spot that benefits both strength and endurance to some extent. I hate to think what could happen to my knees and back with reps targeting purely leg strength.

Press-ups today - 2 sets to failure, starting from/finishing with chest fully on the floor: 18, then 16. I will try hanging hoops tomorrow.

[Marco]

Pure strength work is generally less than 8 reps.... more like 3-5 seems to be accepted.

Endurance would be 12+ (i tend to do 15-20 reps).

Of course there's a balance... i find i can't fit in pure strength work on top of 70 miles a week, so do what i can endurance-wise.

From my reading, strength - for a one off maximum effort - seems to benefit most from fewer than 8 reps to failure; endurance similarly seems to improve most with more than 12 reps to failure; 8 to 12 reps seems to be the sweet spot that benefits both strength and endurance to some extent. I hate to think what could happen to my knees and back with reps targeting purely leg strength.

I'm glad we're in general agreement about the numbers; when I originally read about this, the numbers were like the SML distance categories for fell races (in miles) with:

1-6 Pure strength
6-12 Muscle building
12+ Endurance

Whilst you would think endurance training would be the most appropriate, I found that increasing (dramatically) my pure strength meant that I was running within my maximum muscle strength so my legs didn't get fatigued. Might not work for AL races, but was successful for me in AS and shorter AM races.

As to how small reps with big weights works, what I have read is that it is a neurological thing. In a squat with only body weight you might only use 60 percent (this is an estimation to make the point) of your muscle motor units. If you then do a squat with an additional 25kg of weight you might have to use 75 percent (again, this is an estimation) of your muscle motor units. What this training does, then, is not tear or damage the muscles to build more of them. Instead, it builds up a better nerve network so when the muscle is contracted at a maximum level it recruits more motor units. That's the theory then, as I understand it. If anyone has any better knowledge, feel free to correct me.

In terms of fitting in strength training, I always did it before running training. I did this because A) I'd read this was the order to do it, and B) I didn't fancy squatting with big weights, on my own, after a hard running session. I was nervous, at first, at what running would be like after lifting big weights, but I needn't have been. I'm not sure if it was adrenaline, or whether it was some sort of hormone release, but after the big weights I felt really great, and very focused, and did some of my best running sessions.

Mike T is right about what could happen to your knees and back. I built up slowly, and I remember feeling a bit of a knee twinge at 72kg. I kept the bar at this weight for about 3 weeks before it felt good and then I continued to increase it. I think slow progress is the secret to it.

[PiesAreGood]

My 2 sets of press-ups to failure last week: 42, then 36. Today: 41, then 41. I need to increase the difficulty - I will start with doing them from the ground.

I tried doing them from the ground yesterday evening, putting my chest on the ground between each rep. Crikey, I didn't think it would make such a difference, but it really does (at least for me). Brought my reps to failure right down to 26 from over 50. I shall keep doing them this way. Thanks for the idea.

[Mossdog]

It would be interesting to see if training with the chest-on-the-floor style of pressups helps with the Sally Challenge, perhaps by improving muscle strength over a greater range of muscle movement. Or, would it be better to train with a specific focus on isometric strength building?

[Mike T]

Press-ups using hanging hoops today - the hoops are about 2" above the ground, the down position was with my face level with my hands - 2 sets to failure - 9 then 6. Gosh, it is so much harder than chest on the floor! One of the good things about "chest on the floor" is that there is no cheating - your chest is either on the floor or it isn't, whereas near the floor is a variable concept.

[Mossdog]

Here's an interesting take on the chest on the floor press-up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9sTjhN4Z3M

Sorry about the annoying Youtube pre- ads!!