Pertex Tops?

[Fellhound]

The gear I choose carefully is the gear I use all the time. I expect it to keep me adequately warm in all foreseen circumstances. Waterproofness, as I've said earlier, is just not a major consideration, therefore I don't spend much time or money on it. In fact, the only reason I have a waterproof in my bumbag is because some races demand it.

That's the logic.

I've been in this game for almost 30 years now and have been out on the hills in ALL conditions including THE most severe. In all that time, I've very occasionally found my gear inadequate but never have I said to myself "I wish I'd bought a £150 Gore-tex jacket because I'd be SO much drier..."

[TheNewNickB]

[QUOTE=IanDarkpeak;462999]so when the sh!t hits the fan and you are really in trouble, alone on the hillside in failing light with the weather closing in you'll feel good knowing you bought the cheapest stuff you could find.....I'm sorry but that logic completely fails me. I am a relative newcomer to fell running, but 20 years of winter climbing and mountaineering has taught me that people waste a lot of money on breathable waterproofs. You pay a real premium for comfort, comfort derived from breathability. It doesn't really work when you are working hard, so best to wear a much more breathable windproof. In both sports you only really need that waterproof as an extra layer of protection, when the sh*t hits the fan and your priority is just getting off the hill safely. I will happily spend big money on kit for either sport, but I have always been happy to save on the waterproof jacket, in fell running you don't even have to consider a hood designed for a helmet, so it is even cheaper. Proofed nylon is just as waterproof as gore-Tex or eVent.

[Mark G]

I'm very inclined to agree with Fellhound and NickB above and I think we have to ask what we can reasonably expect from our kit - for a lot of practical purposes while you are moving quckly there is little difference between a pertex and a waterproof in terms of how dry and warm they are going to keep you in the rain. You will sweat up in the waterproof and the pertex will let moisture in, as soon as you slow down or stop you will start to feel cold in either of them. I think the advantage of the pertex is that it and you will dry out more quickly if it fairs up and you will stay drier when its not raining and you wont delay putting it on in a cold wind as you might with a waterproof.
I suggest we sometimes make the mistake of comparing what is good practice and a practical solution for walkers and climbers with out own specific needs - they are less frequently drenched in sweat, running through waist deep bogs or charging across becks regardless and hence tend to stay comparatively dry and warm and if they do start to get cold they can take a nice dry spare insulating layer out of their sack and put it on under their still dry inside waterproof. So it strikes me the best practice would be as Nick suggests above - you run in your pertex and have a waterproof in your bumbag that only comes out to protect you from the elements when you really need it because you are stopped or walking off - and you just really need it to be waterproof.

[IanDarkpeak]

I'm certainly not argueing the point re running in pertex just the theory that cheap jacket is sufficent when it all goes wrong, may be if you can still walk etc. but cheap jackets have limitations they have to save money some where so smaller head cover, non water proof cheap zips, even moving slowly you still sweat. A £10 waterproof may suffice for a short race but for a lakeland race where navigation is required in bad weather or a big day out in big hills I believe it's dubious at least.

I've been a hillwalker/climber, for 35 years, an Mountain leader for 10 years and in the MR for 5 years, as a ML/MR I regularly have to move much slower than I would do when out by myself. I'm more than glad that I have a decent waterproof/thermals, I have a NF ProGore jacket for Ml work which is not much heavier than a Kamilika, I've used this on BG support in torrential rain and finished 6 hours out relatively dry(not so others who whilst warm as we've been moving wouldn't be if we had to stop or go slow) and a big heavy jacket(not Gore) for MR work. I've also ran numerous Outdoor retailers so I know what sort of Garment is fit for what purpous.
Ask your self why proffesionals who spend all there time out on the hills in all weathers don't wear cheap waterproof?
I'm not questioning your hill craft but saying cheap is sufficient(when all goes wrong) sets a dangerous precedent to perhaps novice hill users.

thats my thoughts any way...

[A.P.E Knott]

" I have a NF ProGore jacket "
Ian I have Googled this jacket and it runs out at £81 ,this is a hell of a good price for a gortex http://www.thenorthfaceclothings.com...een-p-216.html
Are they light enough for general running without boil in a bag performance ?
I would like to read a bit of a review from you if you have the time.
Thanks in advance.
regards
Mark
regards

[IanDarkpeak]

" I have a NF ProGore jacket "
Ian I have Googled this jacket and it runs out at £81 ,this is a hell of a good price for a gortex http://www.thenorthfaceclothings.com...een-p-216.html
Are they light enough for general running without boil in a bag performance ?
I would like to read a bit of a review from you if you have the time.
Thanks in advance.regards
Mark
regards

Sorry Mark it's not the NF Pro Jacket but the NF Summit series in Pro shell goretex

GORE-TEX® Pro Shell: Engineered to meet the physical demands of outdoor professionals and serious enthusiasts. Ideal for extended and extreme conditions, delivers superior levels of breathability, water repellancy and durability.

For more information please visit www.gore-tex.co.uk

some details here http://www.ellis-brigham.com/thenort...h-apparel.html


I think my jacket has been superceded by the Enzo but I wouldn't pay that much, mine cost £239 in the sales! but I'm glad I did. love it.

A word of caution on the NF site you posted, I'm pretty sure it's a fake site. NF wouldn't discount their goods to that amount as it devalues their goods and retailers would just stop stocking NF as they couldn't compete. Also look closely at the address "clothings" and at the very bottom it says "powerde by Sale NorthFace"

real site here No discounts on this site

could this be the same company...http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Fake-The-N...00000000941467

[IanDarkpeak]

But to answer your question... It would be too warm to race in but for a steadier BG etc it would be great. If the weather is looking iffy for the HPM I'll probably wear it. hope all that helps.

[A.P.E Knott]

Many thanks for your reply Ian.
If something looks to good to be true then it probably is !
thanks again
regards
Mark

[FellJunior]

Read this thread
Steer clear.

[Fellhound]

When terms like "hillwalker/climber" and "novice hill goer" are used I think we are talking far too generally. As MarkG says, fellrunning is more specialised for a variety of reasons. Most of my outings are relatively short/fast (I use the latter term relatively) so I have no need of the bomb-proof gear mountaineers might wear (I should have added that before my 30 years of fellrunning I spent a number of years hillwalking and winter mountaineering in Scotland). On a BG, PBR or some other ultra distance mountain hill-walk you might feel the need for the kind of protection used by other hill walkers or mountaineers but that is not fell-racing and it was fell-racing or fast fellrunning that I was talking about.