UKA British Fell & Hill Relays

[fyurtez]

Does anybody know if there are any route descriptions out anywhere for leg 1,2 and 4?

Relay website link here with maps of legs 1,2 and 4. Cheers.

http://www.britishfellrelay.org.uk/

[watto]

Relay website link here with maps of legs 1,2 and 4. Cheers.

http://www.britishfellrelay.org.uk/

Thanks! :thumbup:

[geronimo]

anyone got leg3, give you a tenner for it

[Stagger]

anyone got leg3, give you a tenner for it

Up a hill passed 6 or 7 checkpoints and back to the finish, about 8 miles.

Simples, don't worry about it.

[Witton Park]

I've just got a few observations here and I wondered what others thought. Please bear in mind this is based on my limited 5 or 6 years of these relays so I stand to be corrected.

1. This year the stats look quite challenging. Of course when the venue is Llanberis that is likely to mean a bit more ascent than the other recent venues, but the legs are also a little longer. So we have approx 20% more climb and 10% more distance than recent years.
Time spreads
Church Stretton 2012 were 3:16 - 6:56
Kettlewell 2011 were 3:23 - 7:00
Lomonds of Fife were 3:50 - 7:54
Ennerdale were 3:29 - 7:03

There's no predicted leg times that I can see on the event website, but looking at the stats I'd have thought any team getting in under 4 hours won't be far off winning.
I'd go as far as to say I think the winning time may be outside of the 4 hour barrier.

2. If I'm close on point 1, then that means that we will have a spread up to 8 hours this year as the slowest teams are usually twice the time of the winning team.
However we have the 3 HOUR Cut off at the end of Leg 2.
I can see this catching a lot, possibly 25% of the teams that are involved.
If you consider that last year around 10% of the leg 1 runners were outside 1 hour and 15% of Leg 2 runners outside of 2 hours and around 10% of the teams involved finished leg 2 outside of 3 hours.

This is definitely a more challenging route.

So should there be a cut-off at 3 hours? Surely it would be better to have a leg 3 mass start at 3 hours and perhaps a leg 4 mass start at 4:30?
That's got to be preferable to having up to 150 runners unable to have their run.

As I say above, I might be missing something as I'm just looking at the stats for the legs and I've never raced in the area, just watched a few races.

[Welsh Harrier]

Llanberis 2001 time spreads were 3:23 - 5.52.

Last team on Leg 2 came through 2.43 into the race.

Leg 1 in 2001 was very similar to this year's Leg 1, Leg 2 this year is a little longer than last time. Leg 4 is similar to Leg 4 in 2001.

I have maps for the 2001 Legs 1, 2 and 4 but not the navigational route so I can't compare that with this year's Leg 3.

It may be that one or two teams won't make the cut off but not 25% as you suggest. The usual mass start at the beginning of Leg 4 should ensure that everybody's in before it gets dark!

I've just got a few observations here and I wondered what others thought. Please bear in mind this is based on my limited 5 or 6 years of these relays so I stand to be corrected.

1. This year the stats look quite challenging. Of course when the venue is Llanberis that is likely to mean a bit more ascent than the other recent venues, but the legs are also a little longer. So we have approx 20% more climb and 10% more distance than recent years.
Time spreads
Church Stretton 2012 were 3:16 - 6:56
Kettlewell 2011 were 3:23 - 7:00
Lomonds of Fife were 3:50 - 7:54
Ennerdale were 3:29 - 7:03

There's no predicted leg times that I can see on the event website, but looking at the stats I'd have thought any team getting in under 4 hours won't be far off winning.
I'd go as far as to say I think the winning time may be outside of the 4 hour barrier.

2. If I'm close on point 1, then that means that we will have a spread up to 8 hours this year as the slowest teams are usually twice the time of the winning team.
However we have the 3 HOUR Cut off at the end of Leg 2.
I can see this catching a lot, possibly 25% of the teams that are involved.
If you consider that last year around 10% of the leg 1 runners were outside 1 hour and 15% of Leg 2 runners outside of 2 hours and around 10% of the teams involved finished leg 2 outside of 3 hours.

This is definitely a more challenging route.

So should there be a cut-off at 3 hours? Surely it would be better to have a leg 3 mass start at 3 hours and perhaps a leg 4 mass start at 4:30?
That's got to be preferable to having up to 150 runners unable to have their run.

As I say above, I might be missing something as I'm just looking at the stats for the legs and I've never raced in the area, just watched a few races.

[Welsh Harrier]

I ran Leg 2 in 2001 - we were well down the field but our total teams time before our Leg 3 runner started was 2:12.

[Stagger]

I'm with you WP on the mass starts.
I would hate to think I had travelled and didn't get to race due to a cut-off

[RhosgadMath]

I've just got a few observations here and I wondered what others thought. Please bear in mind this is based on my limited 5 or 6 years of these relays so I stand to be corrected.

1. This year the stats look quite challenging. Of course when the venue is Llanberis that is likely to mean a bit more ascent than the other recent venues, but the legs are also a little longer. So we have approx 20% more climb and 10% more distance than recent years.
Time spreads
Church Stretton 2012 were 3:16 - 6:56
Kettlewell 2011 were 3:23 - 7:00
Lomonds of Fife were 3:50 - 7:54
Ennerdale were 3:29 - 7:03

There's no predicted leg times that I can see on the event website, but looking at the stats I'd have thought any team getting in under 4 hours won't be far off winning.
I'd go as far as to say I think the winning time may be outside of the 4 hour barrier.

2. If I'm close on point 1, then that means that we will have a spread up to 8 hours this year as the slowest teams are usually twice the time of the winning team.
However we have the 3 HOUR Cut off at the end of Leg 2.
I can see this catching a lot, possibly 25% of the teams that are involved.
If you consider that last year around 10% of the leg 1 runners were outside 1 hour and 15% of Leg 2 runners outside of 2 hours and around 10% of the teams involved finished leg 2 outside of 3 hours.

This is definitely a more challenging route.

So should there be a cut-off at 3 hours? Surely it would be better to have a leg 3 mass start at 3 hours and perhaps a leg 4 mass start at 4:30?
That's got to be preferable to having up to 150 runners unable to have their run.

As I say above, I might be missing something as I'm just looking at the stats for the legs and I've never raced in the area, just watched a few races.

For information WP.

As one of the course designers (bar navigation leg) I'm estimating winning leg times as:

Leg 1: 30mins
Leg 2: 1.15mins
Leg 3: 1-1.15 (this is what I've been told)
Leg 4: 40mins

Therefore I wouldn't worry about the winners struggling to get home in over 4 hours, by my estimates they'll be way under 4 hours.

Regards these being more challenging routes, again having ran the last 6 relays I'd have to disagree with you. Leg 1 is certainly one of the shortest and easiest for a few years. Leg 2 I'd agree is one of the toughest of last few years, the stiff climb up Moel Cynghorion being the killer. Having said that, the long leg up in the Lomonds a few years back had a winning time of over 1hr 10mins, there was also one stiff climb on the long leg at Bingley two years ago. Leg 3 I've no idea but I'd guess similar to previous relays. Leg 4 is some 5 minutes longer than last years 1st and 4th legs - basically one big climb / descent.

[Welsh Harrier]

Agree with you Math - you've done a great job with these courses. Regarding the toughness of the routes this is an issue that crops up again and again - imagine if everybody went home after the race saying it was all too easy! They'd be thinking they hadn't got their moneysworth wouldn't they?

For information WP.

As one of the course designers (bar navigation leg) I'm estimating winning leg times as:

Leg 1: 30mins
Leg 2: 1.15mins
Leg 3: 1-1.15 (this is what I've been told)
Leg 4: 40mins

Therefore I wouldn't worry about the winners struggling to get home in over 4 hours, by my estimates they'll be way under 4 hours.

Regards these being more challenging routes, again having ran the last 6 relays I'd have to disagree with you. Leg 1 is certainly one of the shortest and easiest for a few years. Leg 2 I'd agree is one of the toughest of last few years, the stiff climb up Moel Cynghorion being the killer. Having said that, the long leg up in the Lomonds a few years back had a winning time of over 1hr 10mins, there was also one stiff climb on the long leg at Bingley two years ago. Leg 3 I've no idea but I'd guess similar to previous relays. Leg 4 is some 5 minutes longer than last years 1st and 4th legs - basically one big climb / descent.

And why do my posts come up at the start of somebody else's quote?